Capacitor to store lightning?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by cato, Sep 21, 2004.

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  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Well, more like "in parallel" which is what the ICL7660 does. Take a look at the data sheet; it does what you describe with no rewiring, just switching.

    Right, neither does the ICL7660. A doubler (or halver) is fundamentally different than a divider.
     
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  3. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    This was at the top of Google's search:

    http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/ICL7660-MAX1044.pdf

    I note that the operating supply voltage range is from a volt and a half to ten volts. The teacher in my electronics school, 30 years ago, told the class that the human body naturally generates a volt and a half, which he said was enough to fry a CMOS chip. Because of this fact, whenever we handled one, we had to have a grounding strip attached to our wrists.

    Is there any integrated circuitry that can deal with hundreds of volts, or even thousands?
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    The human body generates a lot more than that! The IEC 1000-4-2 ESD specification calls out four standards for ESD protection (electrostatic discharge.) The highest level, presumably a worst case, is 8000 volts at 150pF while touching a device. (The 150pf is a capacitor that mimics the charge storage ability of a human body.)

    Fortunately, nowadays most IC's contain protection diodes that prevent ESD damage by shunting the charge to ground.

    Yep. They are still common nowadays even though most devices are now protected. But back before ESD protection (80's, early 90's) they were vital.

    Sure, several hundred volts is pretty easy. But since geometries get drastically bigger at those voltages, beyond about 100 volts it is common to move the switching device out of the IC and on to a separate part (a discrete FET for example.)
     
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  7. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Ah, I recall the day, eager to test my 'O' level project, I switched the PSU on, for there to be a popping noise, something hit me in the forehead, and there was that familiar acrid smell, ... and in my haste, I'd plugged the 555 timer into it's socket the wrong way around, and it had literally blown up.

    I then had to run to the electronics store during my lunch break of my Saturday job to buy another.

    But yes, in Benny's case, if he gets lightning to strike his capacitors, I think he'll need a fire-extinguisher.
     
  8. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    Lightning isn't an intelligent "being" with "wants". It is a discharge of electricity from a charged cloud.

    Because that's what it is, all those who care about scientific principles, even those of us whose scientific knowledge is somewhat less than ideal, will be discussing it in scientific terms.

    There will be no discharge of anything unless the charge has been built up enough to overcome the resistance of the air in between that cloud and another separate object with a charge of the opposite polarity. The NWS says that 90% of the time, the other object will be another cloud.

    Even when the other object, one with a high amount of charge in the opposite polarity, is an object on the ground, this charge can be focused on the uppermost point of a lightning rod. If this is the shortest path to the opposite charge, then an ionized column will set up a conductive link from the cloud to anything connected to the lightning rod, and that could be a bank of capacitors in hundreds of current-dividing branches.



    Boxes are good for storing objects with a physical size and a shape, but not so good for storing electricity. I prefer to use capacitors for this purpose.

    If you want serious answers, you have to ask serious questions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  9. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    That's a good start for your science fiction story, Phil. Let us know when you finish it.
     
  10. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Benny, I'll say it again. Lightning wants to find a path to ground. I never said it was intelligent, or a being, or that it wasn't a discharge of electricity.

    But that path to ground is the raison d'etre for lightning. Without, it, no discharge.

    Doesn't matter what's inside your box Benny, or how those items are arranged, you cannot catch lightning in a box. No arrangement of capacitors inside your insulated box is going to catch lightning.
     
  11. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Benny, you have yet to show any provenance that you graduated from this alleged Electronics course. Mac and I have shown you our certificates, and that guy that popped onto this thread reckons you don't even own a computer.

    You have a lot to prove, not least the ridiculous claims you can catch lightning and store it.
     
  12. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    It sounds like we're both right. The body generates a charge of a volt and a half, but we can store higher charges if we come into contact with something else that already has a charge, like wall-to-wall carpeting, for instance, prior to the familiar experience of touching a doorknob. In that case, our charge could be, as you said, much higher, but I doubt that it could be as high as 8 KV.
     
  13. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

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    Huh? Science fiction? You don't believe he blew up a 555 timer? Shiiiiiit....when I get back from the store, I'll tell you the story about how I blew up a $50,000 prototype tanning bed in front of the big wigs of the company.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  14. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    You can say it a thousand times, Phil, and you'll be wrong a thousand times. Lightning doesn't have wants, it has electrical energy and a variety of visible and invisible radiation.


    You're still wrong, and you still don't know it. A discharge will always happen if the charge on an object is higher than the breakdown resistance of whatever separates it from another object with a charge of the opposite polarity.


    Please forget the "box" concept. I'm not a cabinetmaker, I'm an amateur inventor, trying to earn a US Patent for a unique idea for charging an electrical capacitor.
     
  15. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    You could probably "blow up" any chip-based circuitry by reversing the direction of the current into the two power pins, but just for the thrill of it, tell us more about the tanning bed. Were there any naked movie stars in it? Were you trying to cook vegetables in it? Did you turbocharge the power supply to it somehow?
     
  16. phlogistician Banned Banned

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  17. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    I don't need to prove anything to you, Phil. My goals were stated many months ago.

    1. Patent
    2. Profit
     
  18. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    No, Benny, really, lightning wants to strike the Earth. Potential difference makes that happen. It doesn't want to get stuck in a box.


     
  19. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    Thanks. Do you have a box I can put it into? My closet is organized, and I can't just stuff something in it unless it's in a box.
     
  20. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Yes you do, you need to prove you graduated from that course like you claimed you did. So far you haven't shown us anything. Apart from ignorance.
     
  21. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    That makes twice you've been using unscientific terminology.

    Tell me something, Phil. If lightning "wants" to strike the earth, like you claim, then why do 90% of all recorded lightning strikes hit another cloud?
     
  22. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Is that you, Benny?
     
  23. BennyF Registered Senior Member

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    This isn't a job interview, it's a place to discuss science. Let us know when you've finished your story.
     
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