Cannot be created or destroyed

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Xmo1, Oct 14, 2017.

  1. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    328
    I've read information, and quantum stuff, and matter, and don't have the knowledge. Something cannot be created or destroyed. If I intentionally (throwing that in for fun) wave my hand I've created information. Someone sees me wave may hand, and that becomes information they can use. It has potential. It did not exist before I waved my hand. So what is it that cannot be created or destroyed?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,477
    Energy.

    See 1st Law of Thermodynamics and Noether's Theorem.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,961
    Information is about the arrangement of things. "Creating" information only creates a new pattern; it doesn't create new "things". Your hand was always there (since the Big Bang, anyway, in one form or another). You just rearranged it by waving it.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    328
    How does 'Entropy always increases.' square with Gravity (which always want to bind), and conservation (which always wants to take the easiest path)? There seems to be a conflict of interests. The intentionality seems to be different.
     
  8. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    328
    So I'm saying hello to someone. My intent is new. The message is new. The translation by the receiver is new. The understanding is new. This is saying nothing is new. The matter, and the energy were always there. So intention and potential are not things, but are simply patterns of information?
     
  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,477
    Not at all. You just have to realise that energy and entropy are different things - as indicated by the fact that they have different names!

    You can think of entropy as the extent to which energy has become "run down", in the sense of being still present but unavailable for further physical processes. As the universe ages more and more of the energy is converted to low temperature heat. Low temperature heat is the most run down form of energy. For a small change in energy, dQ, the associated change in entropy, dS, is given by: dS=dQ/T . So the higher the temperature the smaller the entropy change. Conversely when T is low you have a lot of entropy.

    This is why the efficiency of a heat engine (efficiency being the proportion of the input energy it can convert to mechanical work) is greatest when it is able to use high temperature (low entropy) heat. Steam power stations use superheated steam for example, to get the efficiency up. And they produce a lot of warm water (high entropy heat) as what is called "waste heat". This is unavailable to turn into mechanical work, so useless.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
    origin likes this.
  10. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,961
    Yes. The alphabet has all kinds of potential but no matter what you intend to communicate, you're just rearranging what's already there.
     
    Michael 345 likes this.
  11. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    328
    That is an amazing sentence. Thank you.
     
  12. Xmo1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    328
    Ok. That's why thermodynamics. This is talking about the energy in systems. I got off track. Thanks.
    It might be simple to say that information describes energy, but that seems wrong. Is there a relationship between energy and information?
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017

Share This Page