can sciforumers rebuild civilization

"A competitive society does not flourish.
Why is it that technology (along with every aspect of civilization) advances slower than snails?
It's to the point where change is negligible."

That is such garbage! I can give clear reasons why a competitive society DOES flourish and clear reasons why it is better than a non competitive community. And technology is advancing faster and faster now. What the hell are you smoking?!

. In a competitive community, people always try to be better than others, ultimately making things better

. In a non-competitive community, people will work together, yes, but toward what end? They will only produce the bare minimum of what is needed, or worse not even. And betterment will be much slower.

People are by nature greedy. By greedy I mean they want to make themselves happy. Many people get happieness by making others happy, so in this way greed can work to the benifit of the community if the people are intelligent.

What possible incentive will people have to work in a communist community. I can think of at least one large incentive in a competitive community...
 
WELL, LETS TAKE A VOTE SETTLERS!

Who thinks we should be a communist society?
Please name the means of incentive (you gotta realize we need that).


Who thinks we should be a capitalist society?
 
i think that if all the members of this board had to rebuild civi, it'd be skrewed
 
Originally posted by Frencheneesz
Who thinks we should be a communist society?
Please name the means of incentive (you gotta realize we need that).Who thinks we should be a capitalist society?
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Neither.

Originally posted by Frencheneesz

In a competitive community, people always try to be better than others, ultimately making things better
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Actually, ultimately worse.

Originally posted by Frencheneesz

They will only produce the bare minimum of what is needed
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Impossible.

Originally posted by Frencheneesz
And betterment will be much slower.
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Actually, cooperation would lead to a much more advanced civilization.
Competition is the barrier to progress.
Synergetic cooperation is the key to progress.

Originally posted by Frencheneesz
People are by nature greedy.
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Even if that were true, a greedy collective nature leads to collapse.

Originally posted by Frencheneesz
Many people get happieness by making others happy, so in this way greed can work to the benifit of the community if the people are intelligent.
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That is not a healthy way to obtain happiness.
Therefore, little or no amount of social productivity can come of it.
 
"Neither."

What do you suggest?

"Actually, ultimately worse."

Of course, no need to explain to us petty humons, oh cool one.

"Impossible. "

Once again your iron-fist logic foregoes my power of argument.

"Even if that were true, a greedy collective nature leads to collapse."

A capitalist system is not a greed based system, it is the humans which are greedy. The human body (as well as all other living creatures) are by nature greedy. The advantage is clear when looking at an evolutionary standpoint: You value your own life and well being over anybody else.

Why do you think people do good things for others? Because they think it is right? perhaps, but why do they think it is right? The do it so they will feel better themselves.

My point is that human nature is not changable, but the system that utilizes it, is. BESIDES, Capitalism does not in any way imply either competition or cooperation, it is simply the system. We only have traditional views on how each system works (needless to say we have very few abberant examples).

Capitalism simply means the free market economy where anybody can use CURRENCY to purchase their needs, rather than having government owned business to decide by decree what the people need.

You can have a completely non-competitive capitalist society, one only needs to have a system that the free market can take advantage of the focus their cooperation. That and paying people for their service.

Think with an open mind, Capitalism is not the problem, it is the type of capitalism and the system.
 
"What do you suggest?"
A new system.

"A capitalist system is not a greed based system, it is the humans which are greedy."
Either way, a greedy collective nature still leads to collapse.

"The do it so they will feel better themselves."
Not always.

"Capitalism does not in any way imply either competition or cooperation, it is simply the system."
Not a very good one.

"Capitalism simply means the free market economy where anybody can use CURRENCY to purchase their needs, rather than having government owned business to decide by decree what the people need."
Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned.
Development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

"You can have a completely non-competitive capitalist society"
Or even better. You can have a completely non-competitive society that isn't capitalist.
 
cool skill:

Stop being a dumbass and write statments that actually TRY to prove something. I know your opinon, why don't you try to support it. Giving me vauge shit isn't proving anything.
 
I'm not trying to be vague. What proof do you want?
Physical/social design structure layouts?
A full working design of civilization cannot be explained in a single word. It cannot be explained in a single paragraph or post. Nor can it be summed up in a few pages.

There is no way, an entire society can flourish properly by relying on private organizations owned by individuals.
 
"There is no way, an entire society can flourish properly by relying on private organizations owned by individuals."

We also have something called government.
 
neither of those choices are very good. i'm going with a kibbutz. it would be way too small for a capitalist society to be anywhere close to feasible.
 
really! it seems we have only a few posters who are "rebuilding shit" hardly enough for a society let alone a capitalist one. if not for wet, we would be still in the cave!

are we useless or what!

;)
 
hey we got alot done until it turned to arguements over the philosophy of political systems...
 
A bit too comprehensive cool_skill. Doesn't democracy exist in this world??
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Originally posted by Frencheneesz
Capitalism is a much better motivator for people to help further society.
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Capitalism means that people that do the most work reap the least reward.
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I think Capitalism might have more to do with means of production than to serve a motivator, although it does do this too.
 
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Originally posted by NenarTronian
hey we got alot done until it turned to arguements over the philosophy of political systems...
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mind you, discussing political systems is useful. eventually we can implement
some form of economic system. for now i think its best we cooperate and share shit.

sexual favors for a bag of weed anyone?
 
so ahhh.......spook wakes up, stretches and grumbles, "i am tired of hiking my ass down to the fucking river to wash"!

we need water piped into town. we have a water wheel. perhaps that could be used to power a pump. what about pipes? do we have the tech or is it gonna be aqueducts? our little town is nestled by some hills. river means water table which in turn means aquifer? we could hike up the hill, drill, hand cranked pump, fill water tank and have gravity do the rest.

what say the engineers?
 
“We also have something called government.”
Weather or not government is involved, organizations that are necessary for city function should not be owned by an individual.


“Doesn't democracy exist in this world?”
Unfortunately.
Democracy implies that the majority is right.
If 99 out of 100 people want to do something wrong, and one person wants to do something right, democracy would favor the wrong.
 
actually

i must be smokin too much weed

Before the event of modern day plumbing, the way to get fresh water was either to dig a well or make a huge cistern out of wood. Water would be collected off the roof during a rain and led to the cistern by use of drains and pipe. A simple method to make this drain collector would be to split bamboo and use a hot piece of steel to burn the sections out. You then have a half pipe that can be directed to the cistern. (wet)

fabulous! we will build a massive cistern on the hill with "sciforia" painted on the side. i want it filled by tapping an aquifer (not too sure how to go about that. perhaps the water can shoot out of the whole we dug by pressure? maybe we have to pump it out
 
If 99 out of 100 people want to do something wrong, and one person wants to do something right, democracy would favor the wrong.
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That is right, but our democracy (most likely) would never do something like that. We do have someone to override things like that, if they were to happen.
 
i want it filled by tapping an aquifer (not too sure how to go about that. perhaps the water can shoot out of the whole we dug by pressure? maybe we have to pump it out
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Arteasan wells come to mind. They depend on the pressure underground to shoot the water above ground. However, the weight of water is roughly 8 pounds per gallon. That means that the well will not shoot into the air very far. A couple of feet is not unusal though. Now if this well is on a hillside then using the bamboo pipe method to bring it down hill is not out of the question. Aquaducts, made of stone were known in the Roman times to bring water to the city from the hill side. This is a light weight version of that.

Better would be to make the cistern just down hill from the stream and depend on gravity to give it pressure. You must then knock the sections out of the center of the bamboo without splitting the bamboo. This makes a pipe of sorts. However you must now seal the pipe joints where the water does not flow out of the homemade pipe. You must also make spigots that turn the water off or all your built up pressure is lost to open lines. Wood spigots were made for wine casks and the like and were hand carved or turned on a wood lathe.
 
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