Discussion in 'Art & Culture' started by Carcano, Jun 28, 2009.
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Ok, but what determines the health of the psyche...or the dignity of life.
For the emptiness of a literature without spirituality.
Well Finley descrbes a modern world where ones psychological health is challenged by society, she touches on the destruction of children in family units, the destruction of the old in nursing homes that are sterile hospitals where the old are shoved in a corner outside of community to await their death, mental institutions that do not treat their patients with any humanity and cause more harm than good.
She doesn't address what will cure this, she isn't writing from a non-fictional social commentary point of view. She is addressing the sickness of modern society.
But I didn't find Ice empty. Actually more than any other novel it seeped right in and I can recall the mood and feeling in the novel, this is a sign of success. If you can draw the reader in then a novel is successful, if you can place the novel in the heart and mind of a reader then it is even more successful.
But if we live in a strictly materialistic world what difference does it make whether those old people are treated well or ground up and turned into fertilizer.
Why would this challenge the overall health of one's cultural psychology?
"Tis not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger" -David Hume.
How can this concept exist in a purely material world?
What do you mean by 'strictly materialistic'? As a matter of fact you haven't really laid down any proof of your claim that spirituality is an INTEGRAL component of literature. Perhaps it would help if you described spirituality a bit further so I know what you mean? Things pertaining to the spirit in my mind have to do with the living not the afterlife, it refers to man and not god.
Why do you assume that Finley is challenging anything? Its a subjective piece of work, she could have simply been exercising these demons from her own psyche.
I'm not referring to ideas of God either...only to what I described in the opening post.
A sense of CONTINUITY, that consciousness and consequences extend beyond the life of the body...that thought and emotion extend beyond the brain.
Well that would be an example of challenging the demons, yes?
Ok then. What were the consequences behind Hamlet's death? What continued after his saga in terms of 'consciousness'?
Have you ever read Tom Stoppard's play Rosencrantz And Guildenstern Are Dead?
Personally for her yes but this is hardly a good example of supernatural afterlife. Horror fiction is predicated on the afterlife being addressed in a piece of work but I don't believe this is true of all of literature.
I'm not familiar with Hamlet, but I suggest there would be no story to tell without this sense of continuity underlying the drama. His literature is marinated in spirituality...without being religious about it.
As a plot device, Shakespeare would first and foremost have to remove all references to the ghost of Hamlet's father:
Horror literature, sci fi, all that, is not all of literature... Most literature arguably, is very focused on a less spiritual, more interpersonal/psychological profile of relationships and people. The greatest basis for literature is in our own heads, not in some external Magical Sky Fairy.
Well no it doesn't since without the ghost Hamlet wouldn't have thought his father murdered by his uncle. The ghost makes the appearance but it is Hamlets state of mind that drives the play.
Side note: Thanks Carcano for a real discussion on literature without all the usual interference. Didn't think it was possible on these boards.
Anyway if you mean by spirituality the consequences of action drawn from emotion on the lives of the characters I would say yes I agree, actually I am not even sure if I disagree as much as I am trying to better understand what you mean by beyond the life of the body and mind. It seems you refer to something outside the context of any given work and I am trying to glean what that would mean exactly.
I think it depends on what we're arguing is spirituality. Humans are fanciful by nature, and there's always going to be a more rich internal landscape that results for some people by how they live and experience. That's why these people are authors. I think a lot of people call this spirituality if they're religious/spiritual.
I agree most horror is not literature but i think most would agree Edgar Allen Poe is and I am very very confident that Clive Barker will have a place in literature.
Well as a simple example consider the sacrifice of those killed in war.
What they are dying for is a perceived consequence that extends beyond the life of their own body.
Can you outline a novel you have read to offer an example of what you mean?
The sky fairy has been a constant in most people's heads for most of human history.
But there is a principle prior to the sky fairy even more essential to all art.
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