Can artificial intelligences suffer from mental illness?

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by Plazma Inferno!, Aug 2, 2016.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I agree. This behavior is apparent in the Parmecium which does not have a neural network but it does have cilia.
    Thus, Paramecia are brainless but sentient or at least proto-sentient.
    And learns to synthesize Adrenalin,
    I tend to agree, but I've always wondered, why C elegans, a worm with a well mapped neural network does not respond to pain. According to Hameroff the worm has a neural network but it isn't used for "pain" transmission. The reason is that the worm has no cilia (surface receptors) to detect any introduced surface stimulation.


    Thus the single celled Paramecium feels "stress" from it's cilia, the worm C. elegans cannot, in spite of its neural network. The worm was stimulated with an electric shock, but just laid there. No pain response.
    https://www.livescience.com/50087-brain-pain-meter.html
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK216/

    It looks like cilia are a common denominator in all organisms with ability to "feel", and a neural network is required to transmit the sensation of "feel" to a central processor.

    Is the microtubular "sensor/transmitter" (cilia), and the neural "transmission distribution network", terminating with the translation of the transmitted signals by "microtubules in the brain"?
    Seems logically efficient to me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
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  3. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Watched the 11 min video

    Great as he normally is

    Noticed he picked up on one of the things which annoyed me as safety officer on offshore oil rig - the near miss report

    No such animal

    Anyway thanks

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  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Disagree

    Certainly not sentient

    While I think you might mean sentient organisms would have passed through a stage where they resembled Paramecia, stating Paramecia are pro sentient seems to imply they will / might become sentient in the future

    I have my doubts

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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    It depends if you wish to assign magical powers to being sentient.
    Being sentient is not necessarily equivalent to being conscious. IMO, sentience just means ability to experience external influences and react to these influences. Paramecium, when encountering an obstacle, will back up, and adjust course until it is able to avoid the obstacle in its path. It "perceives" the presence of the obstacle and takes corrective action.
    I agree, this is an unconscious response mechanism, however it is subjectively sensitive to external conditions and displays reactive behavior. Even if it is purely physical, Paramecia are made of the same stuff as humans, and there is no known reason why simple organisms should not be able to display sensitivity to their environment.

    The acquisition of consciousness in humans is a result of evolved complex fermionic and bosonic fields and chemical memory via microtubules, which Paramecium have in abundance and which allows for cognition and processing of information from external stimuli.

    Paramecia have no cognition of specific stuff, but they recognize obstacles as obstacles and take corrective action. To me that is the very essence of "proto-sentience", a rudimentary ability to react to stimulus.

    This only means the presence of required physical assets (building blocks) for evolving conscious sentience, proto-type patterns and cellular constructs.

    A Cuttlefish, the descendant of a mollusk, is sentient, conscious, and highly intelligent.
    This would suggest that mollusks have certain specific physical features which make it possible for a cuttlefish to evolve into the sophisticated creature it is today. Thus mollusks have cellular equipment that makes them proto-sentient to touch. I bet this identifies the presence of microtubules, the processors of physical information.

    Tap a mussel and it will snap shut. How does it do that? Sentience? Proto-sentience? Micro-tubules?

    How does a Venus fly-trap know there is an insect within its trap. Actually we do know that when the insect trips two microtubules in the plant's "flower", this triggers a hydraulic action which forces the leaves (petals) to close rapidly, trapping the insect.

    The same as a patch of light sensitive cells may evolve into an eye. The patch is a proto-eye.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/evolution_of_the_eye.htm

    The eye has many micro-tubules!

    In summation; all organisms which share (the genetic formation of) microtubules at birth, possess rudimentary cell structures or proto-types of all sensory abilities.

    A "common denominator" in all sentient or conscious or intelligent organisms are microtubules (biological proto-computers).

    When did action/reaction become sentient? I submit that, if action/reaction is always governed by a mathematical form or function, then one could argue that the universe itself is a proto sentience. An active and reactive medium possessing all qualities and quantities necessary in the formation and expression of biological organisms.

    Some cosmic dust clouds are proto-stars and will create all the elements necessary for human life. It's all chronologically and mathematically connected. Bohm's potential "Implicate".
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    So an ice cube is sentient?
     
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    The rapper???

    Questionable

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  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    This see
    An ice cube is factually sensitive to temperature, no? It actually undergoes melting when a treshold temperature is reached?

    Keep it warm enough and eventually the ice cube will melt and shapeshift from a solid state to a liquid state.

    This is a form and expression of an unconscious sentience, IMO....

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  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    No magical powers. I checked a few sources about sentient and it seems to imply everything alive is sentient
    *****

    In modern Western philosophy, sentience is the ability to experience sensations (known in philosophy of mind as "qualia")

    which in essence embraces all life, and

    The concept is central to the philosophy of animal rights because sentience is necessary for the ability to suffer, and thus is held to confercertain rights.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience

    ******

    My point would be, can you track backwards from
    • a dog with a clear ability to suffer, to a
    • Paramecia, with no ability to suffer?
    To my thinking this would require the same respect (claim to life without suffering) be given to bacterium as the dog

    Would you (extreme extreme situation) be charged "for cruelty to bacterium" because you could not prove they did not suffer when you used a hand wipe?

    Shades of Hindu??

    I would put it more reactive not unconscious

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  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    can we choose which magical powers ?
    yes ! i have a list.

    assignment of class, of sentience, maybe a class of asinine asymmetrical semblance of non sentience

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  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Lol, but nothing magical there, these are existing defined terms. Magical is unexplainable and belongs in the realm of the fantastic.
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    True, but all living things are not consciously sentient. And it also means that at one point a biochemical pattern must have had the potential for evolving into a sentient biological organ. IMO, that potential would be called a state of proto-sentience (inherent ability to evolve), into greater complexity.
    *****
    This is why there is a distinction between proto-abilities (the building blocks) and fully evolved functional abilities. I find this evolutionary process so successful that one might say the universe from the instant of creation and was able to fashion the first particles. Suppose the hydrogen atom had not been formed. Life as we know it would not have existed. But the orderly hierarchical progression from potential proto-abilities to expressed sophisticated sensory processing and ultimately evolving consciousness.
    Right and there is a threshold where non-functional "proto-abilities" actually become real expressed abilities, even as these sensory abilities are not in themselves conscious.

    IMO, one can even make an argument that, assuming a mathematical essence to the universe, such a processing function would be equal to really good logical thinking in human thought. The world of Mathematics is a self-referential pseudo-intelligent structure for processing information.
    A Deistic perspective.

    A perfect example lies in the "flagellum" where a sweat gland evolved into a chemically driven dynamic propulsion mechanism with some other remarkable properties.

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    Wikipedia

    However, micro-tubules (proto-processors) already existed long before they had to process the functions of flagella. AI = a non-conscious proto-sentience.....maybe?....

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    Yes, IMO, Deism describes the symbolized universe's proto-types of various mathematical Patterns. Kinda like the symbolism contained in the Platonic solids. Pretty deep stuff.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  15. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    i beleive in magic
    the type of magic that creates an air of newness and unique expereince to a percepted event or expereince, upon an ability to conjur that for someone to expereince it.
    that is the art of making magic.
    the nature of truth in science is unknown(quantum theory), there for what is deemed impossible is only dreams of dreams.
    The dream is real, but the Dream of the Dream IS the dream and thus not real.
    the ability to create this is magic.
    the perception is magical
    the event is not impossible, only the path to arrive at its inception is elusive.
     
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  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    But that's not how it goes.
    "Natura Artis Magistra", Nature is the Magical teacher of Art....

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    http://www.mathaware.org/mam/03/essay3.html

    Renate Loll proposes that the fabric of the universe itself unfolds in a fractal manner.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_dynamical_triangulation
    http://www.fractal.org/Bewustzijns-Besturings-Model/Fractals-Useful-Beauty.htm

    You can build a Universe with fractals.....the Universe can build itself with fractals......

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    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Problems
    Will try again
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    PHYSICS

    ****
    It took 380,000 years for electrons to be trapped in orbits around nuclei, forming the first atoms

    https://home.cern/about/physics/early-universe

    *****
    I guess 380,000 years is close enough to instant in 13 billion years

    Made it this time

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  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, physics are created from energy via a mathematical formula.

    ****
    Maybe it was probabilistically inevitable. As Hazen says "given enough time and spatial dimensions, it is no longer a question of either/or but when".
    He has great confidence in the probability that life exists elsewhere......

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  20. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    creative license ... but not reverse terms.
    thus i generaly agree(to some point).
    is ART the ability to create art ?
     
  21. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Time does not exist

    Mike drop

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    So do I

    If intelligent, with a equivalent Sciforums site, I hope they have dealt with the god issue better than us Earth Minions

    Imagine a sensible dialogue about a implausible Sky Daddy without a Doppleganger Jan

    Oh happy days

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  22. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    ART is the ability to convince others it is ART

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  23. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    oh so cynersistercal
    not noticably mystercal
    painted boats with a list is all
    listless listing lively

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