# Can a gravitational field be represented as a wave function?

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Richard777, Dec 18, 2018.

1. ### Richard777Registered Member

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If so, the wave function must approximate Newton gravitational acceleration at significant distances from the associated object. The field strength should be finite at the center of the object. The wave amplitude should be related to the Schwarzschild radius.

The “Newton catastrophe” permits infinite acceleration at the center of a massive object. This error may be avoided if the gravitational wave is finite at the center.

Can a gravitational field associated with a massive object, may be represented as a wave function?

Reference; http://newstuff77.weebly.com 06 Gravitational Wave Function

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3. ### mathmanValued Senior Member

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Center of massive object? If the object (not black hole) has finite density, then .the force at the center is 0.

5. ### Richard777Registered Member

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Thank you mathman
I believe you are correct.
The problem is easily solved so that the Newton catastrophe can be avoided and the center acceleration is zero.
regards
rich

7. ### exchemistValued Senior Member

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No a gravitational field cannot be represented as a wave function. A wave function is used to describe the observed wave-like behaviour of matter at the atomic scale, in such a way that observable properties of matter can be derived from it.

A gravitational field is neither wave-like nor matter, so the idea of a wave function does not apply to it.

I can find no references to anything called the "Newton catastrophe". Can you supply any, or have you made this up? As mathman points out, it appears, on the face of it, to be ballocks.

The needle on my crank detector has moved into the amber sector, by the way.

8. ### Q-reeusValued Senior Member

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From beginning to end, claims and equations in your
are mostly nonsensical. Let's see how long it takes for hierarchy here to move it from Physics & Maths to Pseudoscience or Cesspool. Might not even happen.

Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
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9. ### exchemistValued Senior Member

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He rather runs up the Jolly Roger in the last chapter, which is titled: "The Twelfth Dynasty" and seems, incongruously, to be to do with bible history.

10. ### Q-reeusValued Senior Member

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It's both funny and frightening that a search using' biblical exodus a myth' turns up more exodus-as-fact than exodus-as-fiction hits. But it is myth:
https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why_is_there_no_evidence_of_the_Exodus (first two answers in particular)

As an ex-chemist, be prepared to be blown away with an astonishing new way to totally rearrange the periodic table:
https://newstuff77.weebly.com/01-the-pyramid-table.html
I refuse to look at other 'revelations' there - sanity is a precious thing not to be trifled with.

11. ### NotEinsteinValued Senior Member

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Let's take a closer look at your PDF.
Section "The Space-time Segment;": You define a segment, but the equation gives a coordinate. Did you mean "coordinate" instead of "segment", or did you mean to use $\Delta x$ instead of $x$ (etc.)?

Section "Field Stength;": You define $g_r$ to be a function of $r$. This is (as far as I know) non-standard notation; the usual notation would be $g(r)$.
The derivation of $g_0$ is missing.
The explanation of why "mean field strength" is equal to $.5 g_0$ is missing. Also, I think that's incorrect; there are many many more locations where the field strength would be lower than that.

Section "The Wave Function;": A function is introduced, but an explanation of its significance and the derivation are missing.

Section "The Field Equation;": This section does not contain a field equation; only some arithmetics with field strengths.

Section "The Gravitational Graph;": Some disjointed statements, and no graph.

Section "Newton Acceleration;": A previous equation is given, and $t$ is set to zero. This is nonsense: $t=0$ is whatever time you want it to be; it's not physical. The rest of this section is thus nonsense.

Section "Reciprocal Forces;": A previous equation is given. Some more arithmetics follow, with a conclusion about reciprocal forces $F_r$ and $F_R$ which have not been defined. This result is thus meaningless.

Section "Conclusion;": As others have already pointed out, there is no such thing as a "Newton Catastrophe" in mainstream physics, so it is not clear why it needed to be avoided in the first place.

12. ### Q-reeusValued Senior Member

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I wasn't going to list every nonsense in his pdf '06 The Gravitational Wave Function', but a few additions to above may be worth mentioning:

"A segment of space-time (R) is related to components (x,y,z,t); R^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 + c^2t^2
R^2 = r^2 + c^2t^2"

So he sort of uses elliptic not hyperbolic geometry. And further it should be expressed in differential form. Then goes on alluding to curved Schwarzschild metric GR-type 'gravity'!

"Maximum field strength (g_0) is co-incident with the center of the object; g_0 = Gm/(c^2t^2)"

So 'maximum gravity' at a fixed physical location presumably r = 0 is inversely proportional to the square of time (with t = 0 anybody's guess)! WOW! Exotic.

I can guess 'Newtonian catastrophe' is his way of saying field strength of a mathematical point mass diverges as r -> 0. This is both not news and irrelevant to real gravitational physics of extended objects.
His 'solution' to an ill-conceived 'problem' is incoherent nonsense. And it's still here in Physics & Maths.

13. ### exchemistValued Senior Member

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Yes I know: the Exodus story is not thought to be historical.

Re his Periodic Table arrangement, I asked him some days ago what was the point of it, and I have yet to receive a reply.

14. ### Richard777Registered Member

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The web page has been replaced with something a little more appropriate.
regards
rich

15. ### NotEinsteinValued Senior Member

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Your "The Field Equation;"-section still doesn't contain a field equation; it's still just a formula equating two field strengths. Also, I'm quite suspicious about its sign. Looking at: $g_r=-2g_a\frac{a^2 r^2}{a^4+r^4}$
$a$ and $r$ are non-negative by definition, which means $g_r$ must have the opposite sign of $g_a$ (unless they are both zero, which they will not be in general). What does it mean to have a negative gravitational field strength?

16. ### Richard777Registered Member

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The negative sign represents "attractive acceleration" Repulsive acceleration is positive.

17. ### NotEinsteinValued Senior Member

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So you are concluding there's a repulsive form of gravity? If so, your model does not match Newtonian predictions, and thus is falsified by your own standards.

18. ### river

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frequency of gravity waves

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/247513/gravitational-waves-frequency

Gravity waves as I understand it is an extremely low energy wave .

Extremely low energy waves to the point of flat lining , no frequency nor amplitude .

Hence there is no influence of this wave in and of its self upon anything .

for it to be a gravity wave , this must be able to flow at least two ways , forwards and backwards . The wave flows out , grasps an object and then pulls it back towards its self .

Last edited: Jan 22, 2019

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Very no.

20. ### river

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Explain " Very no " .

21. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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Which part needs explaining? The 'very' or the 'no'?

22. ### river

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Start where ever you like .

23. ### river

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My point is that these gravity waves are moving " outward " from the galaxy not inward , towards the galaxy .