Blackwater Blacklisted by Baghdad

I'm sorry, but you are pixels on a screen. And you don't seem to be willing to either admit (as seems obvious and has been stated by military commanders and several other sourcesin Iraq), or deny (with evidence), that no one is even keeping track of what the PMCs are doing in Iraq.

You have yet to supply even one example of any mercenary force being held to account for anything they did in Iraq, for example. And by now one instance would not be enough to counter the apparent larger pattern, in which we have several famous failures of accountability to consider.

Your own direct experience is obviously inadequate, even if I could depend on you for complete accountings of it.

And since you play games with words in apparent attempts at confusing the issues, like this:

and this:

I can't say I see any reason to depend on you for accurate accountings even of your own experience, marginally relevant as they might have been.

 

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I addressed this already. See post #83.

Likewise, you have yet to establish what "apparent larger pattern" you are witness to.

Obviously. I mean, I'm sure you've learned magnitudes more from your living room.

If you're incapable of discussing the finer points of this subject matter without becoming confused...well, ok.

 

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Then stop asking irrelevant questions.

 

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Post 83 does not address the issue here.

The failure to hold mercenary forces to account for their involvement in several well-publicised incidents - Abu Ghraib, a couple of journalist killings, Fallujah, the disappearances of large sums of money, etc. - or their continual presence in the background of minor incidents - the Aegis video, the Dyncorp incidents, the Blackwater arms dealings, etc.

The lack of any agency or authority of oversight, even to the minimum standard of tracking behavior and recording mission, of the mercenary forces in Iraq.

The many statements by every forthcoming source of info involved that there is no center or mechanism of oversight or accountability for the mercenaries in Iraq.

Etc. For the fourth or fifth time.

Not from you.

 

Sorry, but when you said "It seems that Iraq hasn't the power to prosecute American murderers under such a law" I thought you meant Americans in general, on the basis of nationality.

To recap, I "admitted" that there is no one entity overseeing all contractor activities in Iraq. The closest one would be the GAO, but they don't delve into the specifics of each contract (the PMCs not hired by the DoD or DoS are subcontracted from other private companies). I "denied" that there is zero oversight by explaining that each contractor is overseen by their respective employer, and no one else. Whether you happen to personally disapprove of it or not, that is the reality.

I'm not sure how any of this discredits my assertion that PMCs are superior to regular troops in a physical security role, which is what I've been discussing in this thread.

If you just want to complain about them in a general sense, more power to you.

 

Echo3Romeo

iceaura, is a prime example of why there should be universal military service, just so the REMF, had a idea of what the hell they are talking about.

 

Reality or not, it is irrelevant. Even very diligent respective employers are not keeping track of the PMCs they hire in any aspect except their fulfillment of contract, and in the case of US State employment (the largest single one, probably) not even that. (Less diligent - possibly even corrupt or criminal - employers have no oversight either, btw) Fulfillment of contract is not the issue. I am not complaining about the possibility that contracts are not being fulfilled - that's a complaint for another day.

Again: no one is even keeping track of the PMCs in Iraq, let alone providing oversight and control. Mercenaries in Iraq are accountable to no one, and the US citizenry picking up the tab and taking the consequences has little or no idea what they have been doing. That is the assertion, backed up by military commanders in the field and political analysts at home, and on that topic we have nothing from you in the way of evidence or argument, pro or con.

 

Then why did you challenge a point that had nothing to do with your own? You asked iceaura to establish a larger pattern of the idea that there hasn't been an enforced legal accountability for the crimes of some of these people.

The complaint iceaura and others are making is very specific, not general at all.

 

sigh

You make that sound like American lives are more important than others.

Why is this thread stickied anyways?

 

They are more important! One American life is worth, oh, 1,000 or so Iraq lives ...easily!

It's cause the management at sciforums loves threads that are against Americans, and so they like it kept up top where more people can show their hate for Americans.

Baron Max

 

I am puzzled what case is there to answer for?

The iraq government gets new cop cop cars & uniforms for cops & soldiers off the americans then they give them to the shia loonies, who then pretend to be cops or the army only to abduct high profile expats, the iraq government created this mistrust no one else, if they stopped playing america for a fool, the americans would not be so jumpy would they, if i was soldier there i would not allow a iraq cop or soldier within a 100 feet of me, if they want hostages to behead fight for them thats what i say, but these assholes dont want to fight they only want easy targets hence these fake or real cops taking hostages.

If the iraq shia dont want this crap how about stop giving the weaponry & uniforms to there military arm.


And i also can just imagine a fanatic letting off gunshots on purpose in the air while hiding behind a building just to get this response on civilians, so they can claim a PR victory, these fanatics are always hiding behind women & chidren its the only way they know how to fight.

 

From Blackwater??

 

From David Devoss, a senior information officer for USAID, describing a scene from his arrival in Iraq in 2004:

Kroll Inc was a Brit PMC with lots of experience in occupied Ireland during the terrorism there. They lost their biggest Iraq contract to Dyncorp in 2005, despite Dyncorp's higher costs and lesser experience, for unspecified reasons.

 

http://www.markfiore.com/war_profit_0

 

Something I'd overlooked - the amounts of money ebing paid to mercenaries in Iraq, and the fact that most of these contracts are ultimately covered by the US government, means that companies like Blackwater have both the means and the motive to do some serious lobbying in Washington, curry favor and have influence with important officials and powerful politicians.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200709180014 Link to commentary on lack of publicity around Blackwater's Romney connection.- VP Cofer Black is senior adviser on counterintelligence matters to Mitt Romney

 

Yes, you must have overlook my post 88 where I said:

"...Blackwater is owned by Eric Prince, a right-wing religious multi-millionar and one of the biggest individually contributors to the Republicans. - He can afford it: Since 2003 Blackwater has been paid something more than 700 but less than 800 million dollars! (Almost $3 of your taxes from every man woman and child in the US) ..."

 

Read the post, overlooked the significance and the probability that "contributions" did not describe the extent of the influence possible.

These mercenary organizations are apparently set up to be important political players in Washington.

 

Did y'all see the news today where "Blackwater" employees saved some ambassador's life during/after a terrorist attack?

Baron Max

 

Certainly! I think GWB is not smart enough to have thought up the alcohol from corn DIVERSION. i.e. make Joe American think government is doing something that will reduce oil imports, money flow to terrorists etc. when if any thing it will probably increase the oil consumption (according to all dis interested university studies) It certainly will increase significantly man's contribution to global warming as show in Crutzen recent study that included the effect of the N2O released from the heavy fertilization of corn in US.

I.e. In addition to money, the behind the scenes staff is making the decisions for GWB and very pro-oil industry, not Joe American, who only get to pay higher taxes (for the subsidies to corn and alcohol) higher food prices in the grocery store, and to send his son off to die in an unwinable war, costing >10billion per month!

Back before GWB's second election I made a thread "How dumb and American Voters be?" which had most of this in it, but not many listen to me. GWB has guarenteed US and EU will be in deep depression before Haloween 2014, possibly as soon as Halloween 2008. (I set this "6 year window" for start of "dollar run" about two years ago in one of my three main predictions. The "near end" now looks more probable to me than the 2014 end does.)

 

Naomi Wolf has pointed out that the bringing of Blackwater into the US to perform paramilitary duties, at the behest of federal officials but without the oversight of government employees (as in Katrina), is a perfect match for one of her ten stages in the rise of a fascistic government in a country formerly governed otherwise.