baron Yep that's the point I'm making. There are poor white urban communities which have the same problems as poor black communities and there's serious crime in both. I also made the point that not so poor white majority neighbourhoods have a violent crime problem too. Try reading my post again.
When was the last time, and where, that you heard of a riot in a predominately white neighborhood? ...where they deliberately destroyed THEIR OWN neighborhood? ...like the Watts riot? ...like the riots in Cinncinnatti? No, there is NOT the same rate of crime in poor white areas as there is in poor black areas. If there were, the liberals would be showing it constantly on the news just to "prove" their (and your) point. Sorry, but your post just gave simple, isolated instances of crime ....it sure wasn't indicative of the norm by any stretch of the imagination! Baron Max
Is poverty to blame? If poverty was the root cause of violent crime, one would expect West Virginia to resemble a battlefield. Yet that state had a per capita homicide rate in 1999 (4.4) well below the national average. Likewise, not every Western European country is prosperous, but average per capita homicide rates there are still very low.
"There is nothing more painful to me than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then to look around and see someone white and feel relieved." Jesse Jackson, 1993
Draft riots, in the American Civil War, mob action to protest unfair Union conscription. Laborers, mostly Irish-Americans, made up the bulk of a tremendous mob that overpowered the police and militia, attacked and seized the Second Ave. armory containing rifles and guns, and set fire to buildings. Abolitionists and blacks were especially singled out for attack. Many blacks were beaten to death, and a black orphanage was burned, leaving hundreds of children homeless. Business ceased, and robbing and looting flourished. 1969 The Stonewall riots transform the gay rights movement from one limited to a small number of activists into a widespread protest for equal rights and acceptance. Patrons of a gay bar in New York's Greenwich Village, the Stonewall Inn, fight back during a police raid on June 27, sparking three days of riots. Haymarket Square, a square in Chicago: scene of a riot in 1886 between police and labor unionists.
Well, that's good, Spidergoat, ...what is that ....two riots in over 300 years?! Now shall we begin a list of riots by blacks???? Would you like to start?? ;=) Baron Max
[threats deleted] and dont anyone give me that freedom of speech crap...anyone with views like his needs to be examined..very closely.
spidergoat What about the numerous antiwar protests/riots in the 1960s? Predominantly white and dare I add even middle class, yes? I know of a whole list of riots perpertrated by white people in the UK for various reasons usually against some stupid law brought in by the ruling classes to squeeze a few more groats out of the peasants (overwhelmingly poor and white). The most recent being the 1980/90s against the poll tax and just a couple of years ago anti-capitalist riots in London. Also numerous in Europe wherever the G7 met. I'm not going to bother posting details because Baron Max won't change his views in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary because he is a racist bigot and he has proved it time and again throughout these threads. I think he should be banned. There are a few UK skin head websites where his views would be shared and I'm sure there are many more US based ones. That's where he should be posting leaving the rest of us to intelligent debate. Mediator can we have a vote on this please? People riot in reaction to an overwhelming sense of social injustice/oppression, out of desperation or as a result of provocation and intimidation from outside agitators and they are not in the same category as 'violent crime' for the reasons stated above. alexb123 I hope you are happy with the outcome of your silly thread!
Oh, protests, sure .....but how many of those protests burned down half of THEIR OWN neighborhoods, wrecked stores and cars, etc? Big difference in those and some of the black riots, huh? Well, sure I'll change my mind ....but FIRST you have to give me "overwhelming" evidence, don't you think? I've not seen very many intelligent debates here, have you? If so, where and when? Baron Max
You have hit the nail on the head sniffy. barren max does not want accurate stats. I wouldn't be surprised if he works for the KKK. I think it is his job, here, at sciforums, to convert as many young impressionable minds as possible to his lost cause. bye, barren. have a nice time in hell, if, hopefully, such a place exists. I'll see you there, for different reasons, and I will beat your ass for eternity. I hope hell exists, and I hope I join you there.
Attitudes are the hardest thing to change, hatred the most difficult force to quell. A lot of people are where the Baron's at (on both side of the 'racial' divide) and I think it's a pretty lonely place to be. I've had the good luck to mix with a lot of different people from all over the world and I have no doubt that there is more that unites us than divides us. All the blood that spills during conflict is the same colour. It is useful to remember that the world was once a place without borders; that the USA was once populated by people with dark skin that indeed all humans have probably evolved from people with dark skin and if it wasn't for the enforced free labour of people with dark skin the rich, industrial nations of today would not enjoy the lifestyles that they do. This is important to acknowledge. The legacy of all this history manifests itself today in the problems we continue to face. Poverty, racism, ill health, crime; these are bad things felt by all communities and there's plenty of statistics to prove it!
Just because YOU feel that way, does not make it correct or universal. Then why is there more conflict in the world now than in all of the world's past history? There's conflicts between different "races", different religions, different social orders, ....a whole bunch more NOW than ever before in history. Why? From the way the world is in so much conflict, I'm beginning to think that people don't want to intergrate with unlike people. All of the world's conflicts at the moment are efforts to DE-segregate, NOT integrate! And to just say, "That's wrong!" is missing the point altogether. I think it's wrong to think of me, personally, as a racist. First, it only causes personal attacks instead of good arguments to refute things that I've asked or said. Second, it just might be a mistake (I could be writting what racists say/think or playing devil's advocate). To make it personal is to miss the points that are/might be made and to consider them more thoroughly. Baron Max
You don't know what "conflict" means? Or is this your way of trying to deflect the conversation away from issues that you don't like to talk about or away from question/points that you can't answer? Baron Max
Baron You may well be playing devil's advocate if so good for you but if you express sentiments that I feel are racist and or bigoted then I'll tell you so. I have thought about these issues for many years. I've also studied history (from different perspectives) with a particular interest in 'racial issues'. I've come to the conclusion that there is actually less conflict in the world than ever before and that increasing numbers of people have increasingly sophisticated conflict resolution tools at their disposal (and I don't mean weapons). Unfortunately those that govern us don't set a very good example in these areas. They cause conflict in persuit of self interest, they scapegoat the easiest targets and they favour those who will keep them in power. They also distract us and try to divide us. Yes this and all that I've said before are my personal opinions based on study and personal experience. There is no other way I can reach these conclusions. I believe therefore that my arguments are as sound as any I see here. You are going to have to work a lot harder to make me think otherwise. And vice versa it seems!
no i was just wondering,because you cant possibly mean armed conflict cause that would be on of the least true things ever said.
Then I'm not to believe what I see on the news and read in the papers? Can you name a nation or area on Earth right now that is not involved in internal or external conflicts of one kind or another? And by "conflict", I mean any type of issue that is dividing the people into two or more unresolved issues ...even, for example, abortion and gay marriage issues in the USA. I would, of course, consider those "minor" issues but, like many minor issues, they could explode into much worse conflicts. I agree ....but that's just the way life is. We can't ignore reality just because we don't like it! And I don't deny that governments often are the primary cause of conflicts ....but the conflicts are there, nevertheless. Oh, I agree. I just don't want the discussion to turn into a name-calling bunch of posts and lose the whole idea of discussion. You can call me or think of me any way you wish ...I'm a staunch believer in freedoms. Baron Max
Well there you go we agree on something for once 'freedoms'. Newspapers - have you ever read the papers from 30, 60, 100 years ago? Less conflict not more. Most societies are becoming more 'liberal' (and I know that word is loaded with politics in the US) or 'tolerant' if you prefer. Still a fair amount of religious and ethnic strife but there are much larger issues to deal with biggies like poverty climate change, etc. Racism is a diversion - divided we fall. History teaches us that over and over. Anyway enough of the problems what exactly are your solutions? But racism causes real pain, suffering and death. It is not to be taken lightly. Anyway enough of the problems. What are your solutions?
Black riots are much more common, because they are much more understandable. They have been the victims of massive injustice, and it builds up to such a degree that they decide not to depend on the government to fix their problems. They take matters into their own hands, an idea you should be familiar with:
Oh, come on!! In those days, newspapers didn't even know "that" part of the world existed, for god's sake! ...LOL! No, I disagree! In fact, I think it's LESS tolerant than ever before ...and I don't just mean race issues. Abortion, gay marriage, state's rights, religious IN-tolerance, "Big Government", FEMA, wars, military $$$, welfare, food stamps, education, oil-drilling rights, logging rights, national parks, crime and punishment, death penalty, prison sentences, prison life, immigration issues, social security issues, taxes, ......................and on and on and on. The whole fuckin' world is divided by one or more of these issues, mostly more! Tolerant? Oh, bullshit ...surely you can't read a newspaper or see a newscast and still actually say that, can you? Driving cars causes realy pain, suffering and death, too. It is not to be taken lightly. So what? We still do it, don't we? My solution? I don't know ....perhaps true and actual SEGRAGATION? All people who think alike or close move in together, divide the nation/world into various cultural/racial/whatever areas with only minimal contact. The KKK could occupy, say, Kentucky and Tennessee ...the blacks could occupy New York and New Jersey. I was discussing issues of division the other day with a friend ...we're both old and we've both seen fences in neighborhoods grow taller and stronger in the past. Fences make good neighbors? Perhaps that's a sign of what we REALLY want ....division, isolation, no neighbors? Baron Max
