Medicine Woman: I thought the Sea Peoples were unindentified? Wow. Also wow! But I cannot find a single bit of information about Sinube. Is Sinube known as another name? Very intriguing on the Solomonic issues. However, it still doesn't address why Abraham is held to be in Ur. Moreover, the connection with Ur seems more reasonable, considering the Mesopatamian nature of the Jewish God and much of the Bible, which takes its cues significantly from Sumerian mythology and deities. Well, it certainly is much food for thought. Specifically the discrepancy the author points out in the nature of David as a tribal warlord and a warrior-prince.
************* M*W: I'm not an expert on the "Sea Peoples," but I'll keep an eye out for more information on them. ************* M*W: Come to think of it, this is the first time I have seen the name Sinube. Ahmed Osman states in Christiainity: An Ancient Egyptian Religion, Chapter 2 (The House of David): "The story of the epic duel between David and Goliath, inserted to enhance tribal David's reputation as a "man of war," is an adaptation of a much admired Egyptian literary work, The Autobiography of Sinube, describing eents that took place 1,000 years earlier, and it would certainly have been familiar to the Israelites from the earlier period of their Sojourn, the four generations they spent in Egypt during the fifteenth and fourteenth centuries BC." "Sinuhe was a courtier in the service of Nefru, daughter of Amenemhat I, the founder of the Twelfth Egyptian Dynasty in the twentieth century BC. The form in which his autobiography was cast--the story of his sudden flight from Egypt, his wanderings, his battle with "a mighty Canaanite man" l ike Goliath and his eventual return to be buried in the land of his birth--makes it clear that it was inscribed originally in his actual tomb. Many copies of the story, which is recognized as being based on fact (see below), were found subsequently, dating from the twentieth century BC. (when the events actually occurred) until as late as the Twenty-First Dynasty in the eleventh century BC. It was a popular tale in ancient Egypt, taught as a literary example to students, and there can be no doubt that all educated persons in Egypt, no matter what their ethnic background, would have been familiar with its contents." "In Jesus in the House of the Pharaohs, I have given a summary of the evidence indicating that this is the correct conclusion that The Autobiography of Sinuhe survived in the memories of the Israelites when Moses led their Exodus to the Promised Land in the fourteenth century BC to escape from the harsh oppression of their Egyptian masters. (The Exodus has subsequently been disproven by biblical archeologists). Later, in the sixth century BC, the Hebrew scribes, writing the Book of Samuel during the Israelite 70-year-exile in Babylonia-- which had invaded Judaea and destroyed the Jerusalem Temple--and anxious to enhance the image of the tribal David in order to make it possible for readers to accept that it was he who established the great empire stretching from the Nile to the Euphrates, included Sinuhe's encounter with a "mighty Canaanite man." ************* M*W: I just read something today regarding Abraham and his Sojourn in Ur. I'll have to address that at another time. It's late. ************* M*W: The earlier versions of these bible stories can be confusing at best. Now the stories of Sinuhe implies that the David and Goliath story might have been plagarized from Sinuhe's autobiography. Or it could imply that David was also called Sinuhe! It's all very intriguiging, and it's hard to keep up with all the characters!
Med Woman's a real expert on this stuff, she says David and Solomon predated Moses, she really knows her stuff.
Medicine Woman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples Apparently it is largely held that the Philistines were likely descendents of the sea peoples. In regards to Sinuhe (as opposed to be) it seems possible that your reference is right regarding David being taken from it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinuhe A full version? http://www.uwm.edu/Course/egypt/274RH/Texts/Story of Sinuhe.htm http://www.soltec.net/~jcolburn/ane/Sinuhe0.pdf Exceedingly!
************* M*W: There was more than one Mosis/Moses. I gave you the list of the Eighteenth Dynasty yesterday. You only know about one Moses, so that's who you keep talking about. There were many. Do some reading.
************* M*W: Technically, they were all probably real. The one most familiar is of course the Moses who was really Akhenaten. He also went by several other names (as did many people of their day). Moses was his pharaonic name. Mosis/Moses had been a dynastic name handed down to sons and grandsons. The Moses of the bible is the one who allegedly led the Exodus. However, many biblical scholars and archeologists have not found any evidence for the Exodus, so it ends up being just another bible story. From an astro-theological standpoint, the Exodus was nothing more than the movement of the constellations (or the Earth, as it were). If you go back and look at the list of the Eighteenth Dynasty I wrote for IAC, you'll see all the Mosis' that existed. Back to Moses' given name at birth, it was Aminadab. He was later called Moses due to the fact that his story has him being taken out of the river as a baby. That's what Moses means -- taken from water. According to Ahmed Osman in Moses and Akhenaten: The Secret History of Egypt at the Time of the Exodus, he proposes that Tut was the son of Moses of the Exodus. Small world, isn't it?
"She cast me into the river, which rose not (over) me. The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water. Akki, the drawer of water lifted me out as he dipped his e[w]er. Akki the drawer of water, [took me] as his son (and) reared me." Legend of Sargon.. "She could not hide him any longer, so she took for him a wicker basket and smeared it with clay and pitch, she placed the child into it and placed it among the reeds at the bank of the river." Then Pharaoh's daughter saw the basket among the reeds. Later on the Bible says (Exodus 2:10), the boy grew up and she brought him to the daughter of Pharaoh and he was a son to her. She called his name Moses, as she said, " For I drew him from the water." Exodus
************* M*W: I remember this same discussion between us a few years ago. Interesting that just about all the bible stories were taken from older works (original) works. Just like the bible says, "there is nothing new under the sun!"
************* M*W: I was looking through some references, and I found this little blurb about Sinuhe, taken from Moses and Akhenaten: The Secret History of Egypt at the Time of the Exodus, by Ahmed Osman: "The Autobiography of Sinuhi, a court official who fled from Egypt to Palestine during the last days of Amenemhat I, the first king of the Twelfth Dynasty (1970 BC), mentions his passing the border fortress, which at that time bore the name 'Ways of Horus'." So, Sinuhe may have been another name for David, but he also sounds like he could represent Moses of the Exodus theory. If that's the case, David was Moses' ancestor. Like SnakeLord mentioned the story of Sargon is pretty darn close to the story of Moses in the bulrushes.
AGain: I must say this is all very interesting. The incredible interweaving of tales is most fascinating.
