Barack Obama's Bogus(?) Birth Certificate

Discussion in 'Politics' started by DubStyle, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,643
    And you insist on avoiding and deflecting any inquiry into Obama's chosen advisers, associates, influences, specific recommendations, record of action, expressed political stances, and so forth,

    or any similar inquiry regarding McCain, for comparison and informed choice,

    because you don't want Obama in there for reasons of Israeli benefit under McCain,

    and you recognize that the biggest obstacle Obama faces is fear of the unknown among voters.

    I have no objection to keeping good relations with Israel - good from an ethical and sensible pov as well as political expediency - but my first priority is the benefit of the US, not Israel (or the Democratic Party, or the Republican Party, or the Pentagon, etc).

    And the barrage of lies and slime that has been so far the major form of political resistance to Obama's candidacy does not seem to have, at its source, the slightest concern for the better governance of the US.
     
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    This level of slime did not happen in American politics before the shrubs showed up on the political scene. Daddy shrub started it and it has been down hill ever since.
     
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  5. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    Has anyone seen McCain's campaign commercial? Not the that made him look foolish when he compared Obama to Hilton and Spears, although I don't get that one either. The commercial that says Obama isn't ready to take care of the American family because he wants to raise taxes, increase government spending and decrease jobs and why you should vote for McCain because he supports alternative energy? I don't get it. Is it a non sequitur on purpose? I know this is off topic, but I've been watching it for a while now and I still can't grasp what the commercial is trying to convey.
     
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  7. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Hilton and Spears have a reputation for being irresponsible and foolish. McCain is attempting to get views to associate Obama with Spears and Hilton thereby getting people to think of Obama as foolish and irresponsible not capable of being the commander in chief. It attempts to be an updated version of the Willie Horton Add daddy shrub used in 2000.
     
  8. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    Joe the funny thing is that there is evidence to show that negitive capaines just dont work. In fact they can in some cases have the oposite effect and drive people TO your oponant
     
  9. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    I like your engine analogy. An argument for a bit of corruption. But where we part ways is your assertion that slime and lack of integrity are Republican traits. Consider the specific example you cited. Many of these rumors plaguing Obama weren't started by Republicans, but by the Clinton campaign.
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    I'd be even more specific than that - they are distinguishing features of what started out as a faction - a coherent, deliberately organized and consciously disciplined group - in the Republican Party and has only recently come to own it, along with gaining dominance of the three branches of the US Federal Government, reasonable control of the major media, and an unholy alliance with a rapidly expanding Pentagon.

    That is not to say that the Dems are somehow walking out of the political mudfight with clean socks, but the absorption of the modern factional Reps in what would be jail offenses in a reasonably run country, their complete lack of care or interest in actually governing, and their fascist ideology, put them in a class of their own. The Dems are just an ordinary muddle of competing interests, among them an apparent desire to govern well.
     
  11. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    Why??? You're not going to get any reliable news there, those things are worse than TV, a.k.a. The News For People Who Can't Read.

    One of my favorite comic strips, Candorville, has a recurring character called The Media who walks around shouting the things he wants us to know about and whispering the things he doesn't. But he has an oafish relative called The Internet who just blathers stupid crap like "Did you know Obama is a Muslim?"
    Our nominating system will make that impossible, or at least unimaginably difficult. He's got so many delegates who are absolutely required to vote for him because of the outcome of the primaries, that he'll get the nomination on the first ballot. It has to go to a second ballot before the delegates have free rein and can deviate from what the voters have commanded them to do.
    This is something even they can't pull off. This election is going to be Obama vs. McCain and we'd better all start preparing for it rather than expecting, hoping, or dreading something else. The only uncertainty is who's going to be running for VP on both tickets.
    McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone. It's not entirely clear that this satisfies the Constitutional requirement of being a native-born U.S. citizen. I'm more than a little surprised that more hasn't been made of this. Shit, given the choice I'm going to have in November, I'd be quite happy to bend the rules a little more and let my state's governor Conan the King run. (That was going to be the next movie but instead he got to play it in real life.)
    Why don't you vote? You people who don't vote because you're special and YOUR time and energy is just ever so much more important than OUR time and energy form a demographic. If you'd all get off your butts and vote you might very well change the outcome of the election.
    Only those of us who watch The Daily Show. Jon Stewart has had him as a guest many times and they got along quite well. His political positions are frighteningly inconsistent. What comes across clearly is that he is simply a fascist who honestly believes that the government knows best and should feel obligated neither to obey the will of the people nor explain itself to them.

    The dude has to believe in war because he sacrificed so much of his life to the Vietnam Debacle. We can't afford to have a man in the White House who honestly believes that war is EVER an appropriate way to resolve issues.
    At this point Obama has flip-flopped as much as any politician. Which shows that he has some political savvy.

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    But the change he WILL bring is that the entire rest of the world will sit up and say damn look at that, America is really different now and maybe we should give those crazy people a chance to clean up their act.

    That's probably the best we can hope for and frankly, it ain't bad. Maybe we're The World's Only Superpower, but we're still not so big that we can continue to make everyone else on the entire planet hate us (or at least think we're daft) and not suffer any consequences.
     
  12. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    Oh god, you actually believe that? Hell, Kennedy was slimier than SR ever could have been. It was just that he was goodlooking and popular. And don;t get me started on Reagon.
     
  13. TW Scott Minister of Technology Registered Senior Member

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    Fraggle

    The rest of the world may think we are crazy, but they don;t pretend for a second that we aren't THE world power. They don't think for a seconf America is going under. In fact they pray nightly it doesn;t happen, becuase of two things. First we are the very first to offer aid to other countries and we are the most generous with that aid. Second we aren;t just the cornerstone of the world economy, we're the basement and first three stories of it. We go down and the whole world joins the trip, except it's worse for them. So if those nations had a brain in their heads they would be praying for McCain to win.
     
  14. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    I feel tempted to make a "McCain was born in Panama, not the U.S." website.

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    Leased land = not natural born!

    Patriot? Yes! Citizen? No!

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  15. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    When you say "the rest of the world," it sounds like you're only including the West, and possibly China. Reporters keep saying that there are a whole lot of people out there who see pictures of Obama and stop in their tracks, saying, "Hey, that guy doesn't look so completely different from me for a change!" They're not thinking about the world economy, and they certainly don't think that a starry-eyed leftist like Obama would be any less generous to the Third World than a hard-nosed authoritarian like McCain would be.

    I think an Obama presidency would have a much greater impact on the rest of the world than a Hillary presidency. Sure she would be a big hit with the Europeans. But many of the places where those hundreds of millions of darker-skinned people live are not exactly paragons of modernity. For them the idea of yet another female head of state in the crazy West is just one more sign of the world going to hell in a hand basket.
     
  16. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    Oh okay, but what about the other one? I still don't get the Obama can't handle your family's needs. He wants to raise taxes, increase government spending and decrease the amount of jobs. McCain is a better choice because he supports alternative energy, commercial. I don't see what one has to do with the other what does supporting alternative energy have to do with taxes and government spending?
     
  17. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    actually cutsie, the US needs someone who will increase goverment expenditure and employment. rember jobs in the public sector are real jobs as well and if what i have seen is accurate unemployment is a big problem there. Goverment contracts can save companies (and there for jobs) as can the goverment employing people.

    Look at england, one of the main reasons for establishing the NHS in england was to increase employment
     
  18. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    The obvious and intended implication is that McCain doesn't support the high taxes and other bad stuff that Obama supports.
     
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I have not seen that ad. But it sounds like the same old Republican line. It is trying to give the viewer the impression that Democrats are fiscally irresponsible and want to raise your taxes...a populist line. Not many people, especially those of modest income want to loose more of their disposable income to taxes. So it tries to scare people, make people fearful of Obama.

    The truth is Obama only wants to raise taxes on those earning more than 250k per year period...and that includes capital gains, employment taxes and any other kind of tax. He has said that many, many times and he has published it many many times. And on those earning more than 250k he only seeks to go back to the pre-bush tax rates...hardly the draconian top rates of (98%) of the 40's, 50's and 60's when the United States experienced the greatest economic expansions.

    So the material in the ad is very deceiptive, and frankly untrue for more than 98 percent of those people viewing the commercial.
     
  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,910
    I wish that were true. But I think you will find plenty of evidence to show that it works in the United States. Shrub junior could not have come even close to getting into office without the tactic. That is why Republicans spend huges sums each election on this kind of smut...cause it works.

    If that were not enough you can find smut producers like Limabugh, Hannity on the air here 24 hours a day. And in some areas like mine, you would be hard pressed to find something other than Limbaugh or Hannity on the news and talk networks.

    That is why you have people like TW and Buffalo that are immune to truth. They only believe information received from Republican sanctioned sources, Fox News, Hannity, Limabugh, etc. Republicans have launched a full scale assult on the media in the United States, and they have won.

    So that is why the United States has been acting ver peculair over the last two decades.
     
  21. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    umm buffalo and TW arnt really good example joe, all you really proved was the existance of one eyed suporters of the rupublicans.

    this artical is on the effects of negitive campaining on voter turnout in the US
    http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1000&context=crisp

    It wouldnt be acurate for australia because we have compulsery voting so resurch conducted here would focus on the who the people actually vote for

    i cant actually find any resurch from here on the effectiviness at the moment (and if i dont go to bed PB will kill me) but this one is about wether its increased over time and has some interesting infomation on the differences between the australian and US systems http://www.utas.edu.au/government/APSA/SYoungfinal.pdf
     
  22. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    3,485
    But isn't McCain going to have to raise taxes too? In the commercial it never said that McCain wasn't going to do the things that Obama has to do just that he supports alternative energy. But Obama supports alternative energy too, so what is the point McCain is trying to make? Whoever is coming up with ideas for his commercials needs to be fired they kind of suck at it.
     
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    No. He can inflate the US currency instead, and default on government services to citizens.

    He exists to supply US tax breaks, regulatory favoritism, and public wealth to multinational corporations, in return for their financial support and other considerations.
     

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