Australian SHEEPLE vote in a new Shepherd

?? Rain forest, north Australia, Tazmania - are you actually in Australia?

Anyway...it pains me a bit to say this, but I actually agree with Brian there should be more representation by popular vote. The Parliamentary system was fine some time ago, but if the ultimate goal was some model of perfect expression then it has failed somewhat.

I now return you to the world in which Brian is still a deluded git as per normal. Do not touch your dial. We control the vertical, the horizontal, and the tinfoil.

 

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7.64% of the votes for greens was not enough to get them any seats at all. Hence the preferential voting system. Basically, the voter has some influence on who gets in should his preferred party or candidate fail to win a seat.
1 in 10 of Australians voting green means 9 in 10 don't want them in government. Note the rounding in their favour. Of those 1 in 10, their vote then goes to their "second choice", ensuring they at least have some say in matters.
Shits all over 'first past the post' voting.

I'd like to see Brian's idea for a viable alternative. If he has one.

Is it?
Have a close look at that treaty and how it actually affects Australia, and think again.
I am not saying a treaty to address global warming is a bad thing - I am saying that no one nation should be forced to sign it when the detriment to them is more than that to others, particularly when even achieving it's purpose is by no means a guarantee.
I don't think the Liberals were averse to signing a treaty to address perceived global warming issues. They were averse to signing this one. There is a world of difference.

Even if he has been in it, Spud, I agree with you - he's never seen it...much less felt it. It is one thing to reject and ridicule any human activity, and it is perhaps with a sense of amusement more than anything else with which I read Brians.... tripe. But this.... this is one thing illustrating almost perfectly how utterly blind some can be. And how much of a hole this man is in. I have been known to be angry, amused, depressed, exasperated... the gamut of human emotion, when considering human nature... but the day I lose sight of the beauty of this world is the day I will declare myself dead.

I'm not so sure. There will be change, yes, but for the better? I do remember the unions having more power than they should have had, and I agree that they had their place and time. I'm not so sure that they are relevant now... and I'm concerned about a possible return to an outmoded workplace dynamic. Scare mongering? Perhaps it was.
I have to admit a certain amount of trepidation over the change. I don't particularly like Howard, but at least he has been a strong leader worthy of respect. The Liberals I've liked even less in government.
But I would be concerned should the change be more a result of a popular perception of it being time for one, rather than any real knowledge of Labor's plans and the result of them being in power after an 11-year drought.
Time will tell.

I raised an eyebrow when the (unsourced) opinion of one US "expert" suddenly became Liberal party policy. That was quite a leap, even for Brian.

Indeed. Personally, I like both grapes and mangoes. We have something no other nation has. New Zealand has something no other nation has. That is how it is, and we can only hope none of it is lost forever.

Very interesting. Reminscent of the Whitlam situation, in some ways.

Your interpretation exposes your lack of understanding, doesn't it? Already covered this. So did Bells.

Don't be so fucking stupid, and open your eyes.
Against "the rules", I know, but needed to be said.
Oh, and incidentally.. kangaroos do. So do camels, descendants of those lost by Burke and Wills and many other explorers way back when. Dingos. Several thousand species of birds, mammals, reptiles and insects found nowhere else in the world. Take a look at the painted desert and tell me that isn't beauty. Uluru? The Nullarbor. Pilbara, Kimberley, Queensland rainforests, Atherton Tablelands... far too much to bother listing. Open your eyes.

Right. Let's get rid of this oppressive environment and replace it with something even more unworkable.

I've yet to see a more workable voting system than the preferential voting system we have.
As I've already pointed out, it is a system in which even those whose preferred candidate does not gain power, still have influence over who does.

This Brian guy is the same one who, no matter how many times it is pointed out to him, still fails to understand that Australians voted against the Republic when the referendum was called not because they wanted to retain ties to the UK, but because the model presented to them as that on which the Republic would be founded was not to their satisfaction.
Thus far we have yet to be presented with another model on which to vote - something I look forward to seeing, hopefully soon. I know that it is quite possible that the Liberal government (Howard) presented us with that model because they knew it was one which would not gain the support required to make the change viable, but it is equally true that the current commonwealth structure gives the UK only a nominal power over Australia, and one rarely (if ever) exercised. So why rush in and change it when there isn't anything actually wrong other than a perception of power structures?
Sun Tsu would be apoplectic.

(note - a referendum - one of the few forms of direct democracy in existence anywhere in the world. We have those here, when the issue at stake is deemed to be important enough. How many others do?)

 

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Beaten by minutes in covering the salient points. Good grief, James, this is perhaps the first time I've ever agreed with you so much regarding anything at all.
Other than in one thing after a cursory examination :

I'd say the catalyst was Australia simply feeling it was time for change.
Policies even half agreeable and a Labor "leader" who might actually become worthy of the description were the convincing factors for a nation already inclined to vote for anyone who might be a worthy leader... as long as it wasn't Howard.

 

It is quite failsafe when you remember the Corporate media drums out constant propaganda concerning who we vote for . Amazingly the people actually believe our press is free from political manipulation when in fact the media are the manipulators of politics on behalf of the Corporate system .

Precisely these election systems are carefully designed to limit third party interference whereby populist and leftwing parties are kept in check . That is function of these restrictive election systems keeping power to influence in check.

Each voter has one single transferable vote in a multi-party popular determinated election , where each political party is accorded representation proportional with the percentage of the vote received. Entrance qualification to Parliament for political parties entails no vote percentage thresholds designed to keep out smaller parties.

The cold reality is that 7.64% of Australians who voted Greens have been divested of representation in Government . How does your preferred system equate into a fair election ?

What a load of Bullshit , it was the Anglo Saxon/British majority in Australia which killed the Republic move , you only had to witness the Anti Irish tinge to the campaign , to see that . Or the head of Australia’s RSL’s claiming there was a Sinn Fein lobby at work with Keaton Fucking ridiculous , tomorrow if we had the vote again with the model we want it would still be hammered .

 

Nuclear waste from the US in Australia?

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As for the rest of your concerns they seem to be well founded. A small group of rich men hold positions on many boards of companies which control the money of public elections all around the world. Do you really think for a moment legislators who don't agree with them will have a chance of getting elected? Companies will keep tightening the bolts until they break. Then all hell will break loose.

 

No James the President isn't elected directly by the peole we have a Electoral College,


The United States Electoral College is a term used to describe the 538 President Electors who meet every 4 years to cast the electoral votes for President and Vice President of the United States; their votes represent the most important component of the presidential election. The Presidential Electors are elected by the popular vote on the day traditionally called election day. Presidential Electors meet in their respective state capitol buildings (or in the District of Columbia) on the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December (per 3 U.S.C. 7), never as a national body. At the 51 meetings, held on the same day, the Electors cast the electoral votes. The electoral college, like the national convention, is an indirect element in the process of electing the president.

Provisions for the mechanics of presidential elections were established by Article Two, Section One, of the United States Constitution. The 12th Amendment provided that each Elector vote separately for president and vice president. Today, the mechanics of the presidential election are administered by the National Archives and Records Administration via its Office of the Federal Register.

Electors are chosen in a series of state elections held on the same day (election day). The number of electoral votes of each state is the sum of its number of U.S. Senators (always two) and its U.S. Representatives; the District of Columbia has three electoral votes. In each state, voters vote for a slate of pre-selected candidates for Presidential Elector, representing the various candidates for President. State ballots, however, are designed to suggest that the voters are voting for actual candidates for President. Most states use what is termed the short ballot, in which a vote for one party (such as Democratic or Republican) is interpreted as a vote for the entire slate of Presidential Electors. In these states, with rare exceptions, one party wins the entire electoral vote of the state (by either plurality or majority). Maine and Nebraska choose Presidential Electors using what is termed the Maine Method, which makes it possible for the voters to choose Electors of different political parties and split the electoral vote of these two states.

The Presidential Electors of each state (and DC) meet 41 days following the popular vote to cast the electoral votes. The Electors ballot first for President, then for Vice President. On rare occasions, an Elector does not cast the electoral vote for the party's national ticket, usually as a political statement; these people are called faithless Electors. Each Elector signs a document entitled the Certificate of Vote which sets forth the electoral vote of the state (or DC). One original Certificate of Vote is sent by certified mail to the Office of the Vice President.

One month following the casting of the electoral votes, the U.S. Congress meets in joint session to declare the winner of the election. If a candidate for President receives the vote of 270 (as of 2007) or more Presidential Electors, the presiding officer (usually the sitting Vice President) declares that candidate to be the president-elect, and a candidate for vice president receiving 270 (as of 2007) or more electoral votes is similarly declared to be the vice president-elect.

 

Or more accurately we would end up with a popularly elected and determined Parliament that is a true reflection of Australians opinions such as Green , Socialists , Christains etc

Thats is what is being touted , disposal of Atomic and toxic waste is on the books , Bob Hawke first brought it up in 1998 .

I see you also understand a plutocracy as with the rest of the World .

Thats Democracy in action all opinions are allowed , that would be how the nation voted .

Save me from Gods Fan club .

 

Bells, You just gave me nightmares.

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I was hoping to hell that these did not exist in beautiful multicultural Australia. Really.
Now I'm wishing i was in singapore, So that political censorship, wouldn't let me see that.

 

Ugh...almost agreeing with Brian Foley.

*sobs*

Right, I'm going to pretend he hasn't said anything now. Wouldn't a proper democracy with proportional representation be better? Why the need for electoral colleges and Parliament seats? Calling the present systems representative of electoral will is like saying a square approximates the shape of a circle because they're the same size.

 

And here I sat peacefully, thinking that the worst it could get, was that Pauline Hansen would get a seat.
I suppose he had to court the extremes, when the centrist voters are so disenchanted.

 

I prefer Rudd only because of the tax fraud that liberal achieved in.
The tricks he pulled when a person would be forced to work was shocking.
They would be hired ,work ,clean and go home this went on for ages.
When they finaly got paid the tax was so high the pay was less.
this was noticed when companies would give cash to the workers to carry them on till their payday was here
because of the cash the pay was delayed and tax was higher cause of the lump sums
this went on all over the state prolly all over australia

its not onlyb cause of the tax its over families and
other things that needed TLC and imediately

Did you know the old labour as in hawk
has a file with all the strangest people like an x file type a thing
and they told me its called exstinct and im in the file with all these wierd people in it
hahaha i wouldnt want it any other way hahaha
ohh well i wonder if Rudd will be aloud access to these files
he is labour

ok forget i mentioned anything bout the files
i know nothing nothing

i hate conspiracies

theres a list in the file of peoples names that are well very rare and unusual
and of course im very opened with stuff but some stuff dont know

we all have sumthing different some are not to have their names mentioned for safety reasons
they told me this years ago back in the eighties
kinda cool for a govtment to have a secret
im wondering if Rudd is aloud to have access to these files or not
and what would he do with the information and why's it so bloody secret