Attention, SF Staff: I stand by what I've done

Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by Jadebrain_Prime, Jun 24, 2015.

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  1. Jadebrain_Prime Atheist now Registered Senior Member

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    I was originally going to post this in a spoiler box on my most recent post, but it would have made the post contain too many characters. It's for the best; this was a message for the moderators and staff, anyway.

     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2015
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  3. Jadebrain_Prime Atheist now Registered Senior Member

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    As I of this typing, Brian Harwarespecialist and "John Fontes' Atheist twin brother" have continued with the same BS as before; the rest haven't posted since my post which the text from one would have gone in. Since I've started typing this post, Spidergoat has displayed ignorance of the additional information I've provided in the thread posts themselves, which will also have to be accounted for with any attempt to address my ideas, as I've clearly stated in the post challenging Spidergoat to prove anything. Ugh...

    I honestly wouldn't mind if anyone was able to prove my argument wrong. If it's wrong, I might end up with minor disappointment in myself for making a mistake, but at that point, I'd have an opportunity to learn from my mistake and adjust my ideas accordingly. I'll even abandon them, and any other ideas using the same flawed rationale, if it's necessary - it wouldn't be the first time I've done this, or even one of the first five times. Once I realize that I have biases, they're easy to lose.

    But that's not happening. If you want to know what is happening, read the original post above. Think I'm wrong? Go ahead and prove it.

    EDIT: Exchemist has chimed in, limiting his entire analysis of my response to Spidergoat's failure to address my ideas to the inference of character I had given, completely ignoring the entirety of the objective criticism I had already given. His QED in his following post even shows more than a hint of pride in his ignorance, although such a thing been well established beyond any "hints" for a while now.

    Also, I should point out that I'm not going to post the link to this thread on the thread in which this is happening. These people have already proven that they're not going to listen to objective criticism, and the challenges in which I dare them to live up to the standards which they have continuously failed to uphold don't seem to work. Their invincible ignorance is exactly what its name implies, and inviting them here will only allow them to clutter this thread with the same BS. I can't stop them if they find this thread on their own, but that would require them to have the initiative to actually look for the points of others, and these people can't even examine the points that are given to them. In any case, this isn't a message for them; this is for the consideration of the staff.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2015
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  5. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe you should PM an admin. Moderators could have a rule book and not even look beyond it. So, naming people outright could be a 'no no'.

    :EDIT:

    Oh and if anybody is interested in my suspension on that other forum -it was worth it and I get to choose whether I want to continue deliberately being mean when it is lifted, or just not come back. A long time ago I pm'd one of the administrators that "Your forum sucks!" and nothing has pretty much changed since then.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2015
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  7. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Is happening. Deal with it.
     
  8. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    That would be preferable to the majority of members.
     
  9. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Must be really sad for you not getting a PhD and being reduced to slinking around forums.
     
  10. Jadebrain_Prime Atheist now Registered Senior Member

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    Perhaps it's only inferred, but I think I got lucky when I PM'd the particular staff member that I did when the other thread was on its first page. I could try the others, but I'm hesitant to do so... It's possible that the infamous corruption of the Sciforums admins somehow no longer applies (possible, but unlikely, since not much else has changed), and that these days, they're too exhausted to take on the daunting task of taming the wild beast that is the Sciforums community, and as a result, any "authority" they exercise here is less "useful" and more "ritualistic." The staff member I PM'd seemed to imply this in their response to my message, as well as being rather enlightening about the state of this site and various other things.

    I remember seeing a thread you had made (IIRC, it was about harassment from a banned member), and you seemed like the sort of person who would understand where I was coming from, but I decided I'd rather wait for an opportunity to offer my own thoughts on the matter, since I'm a guy whose esoteric prose brings my "high-brow" communications into "nerdy buzzkill" territory, and I'd rather wait for an opportunity to reach out with something better than an unsolicited message filled with my ramblings. To get around this, I've been experimenting with debating from the perspective of adopted personae on Facebook, and the "no-nonsense challenger" demeanor I've shown here is kind of a persona in and of itself (I felt the need to use it in the other thread because the people I was dealing with wouldn't listen to reason, so I decided to try attacking their false pride in order to get it out of the way, which unfortunately didn't work; this particular persona doesn't interfere much with the reasoning process, merely adding descriptors to emphasize inferences that are already reached).

    This "persona development" may be partially due to an anomalous chain of realizations in my life; these things are triggered when one realization opens up opportunities for more, chaining them together until the chain is exhausted, usually within a week, and then I'm back to the pace at which I normally realize things. This one, however, is anomalous, because this chain is well into its second month, and it's actually gotten stronger over time. As for the personae, I have a hunch that it's probably a result of increased activity in my right brain hemisphere.

    Introspective exposition aside... Time to resume the "no-nonsense challenger" persona.

    You're stubbornly clinging to the refutation of an argument that you're familiar with, because you can't handle the possibility, let alone the evidence pointing to this possibility being fact, that I'm actually saying something else entirely. Questions of your intelligence aside, if you're too much of a pathetic, spineless coward to face the unknown, you're not qualified to debate on a scientific forum. Your cringing is an obstruction to progress. Get out of the way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2015
  11. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    If I wanted a PhD I would have gotten one 25 years ago. No one sheds a tear when you're gone, Bw/S.
     
  12. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    You're stubbornly clinging to the refutation of an argument that you're familiar with, because you can't handle the possibility, let alone the evidence pointing to this possibility being fact, that I'm actually saying something else entirely. Questions of your intelligence aside, if you're too much of a pathetic, spineless coward to face the unknown, you're not qualified to debate on a scientific forum. Your cringing is an obstruction to progress. Get out of the way
     
  13. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Jadebrain_Prime, if you're referring to RobbityBob1, I let him enrage me and rob me of my abilities to change things when I knew I could be much more productive in other areas with my time. Similar to the way, AlexG, would like to irk me; believing he's hurting my feelings.

    I'm not aware of all the facts involved in your exchanges with whomever, but simply saying that calling people out the way you appear to have done, more or less in my opinion, even if fitting could still be a breach in the rules somewhere.


     
  14. Jadebrain_Prime Atheist now Registered Senior Member

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    Spidergoat, your post has been reported, but I'll still remind you of the following:

    I've already given proof of the fact that I'm doing something different, something that can actually work, because I'm getting rid of the stuff that doesn't work, and replacing it with stuff that does work.

    You've already given proof that you don't know what I'm saying, because you can only refute the stuff that I've gotten rid of, and none of the stuff I've replaced it with.


    It goes back to the problem with defining a moral system with multiple axioms dealing with arbitrary values, trying to cover the entire purpose for the system by filling every gap with more and more axioms (Gödel's incompleteness theorems show that this doesn't work) without making any axioms that actually deal with that purpose in any way. These rules can help, but they can also hinder the overall purpose one works toward; because the rules don't deal directly with that purpose, adherence to the rules over the purpose can make you forget what you're trying to do in the first place. I'd prefer breaking rules to breaking a worthy cause.
     
  15. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    jade
    Hmmm, and you are reporting posts?
     
  16. Jadebrain_Prime Atheist now Registered Senior Member

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    Breaking rules is one thing; I won't report such things if there's a point to the rule-breaking. If you engage in the immature posting of spiteful non-points, especially in a serious conversation, you better believe I'll report that.
     
  17. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Has it occurred to you that you can't solve a problem by ignoring factors that are inconvenient?
     
  18. Jadebrain_Prime Atheist now Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not ignoring factors that are inconvenient. The factors are actually arbitrary; there's no reason to deal with them, and if I decide to include them anyway and force the axiom to deal with them, they'll mess up the axiom's usefulness for exactly no reason whatsoever.

    Sure, some of those factors may be correlated, but without any causal relation, you'd be better off using whatever relevant factors they're correlated with, instead of the arbitrary factor itself. This should be obvious, but it isn't to you, because it's inconvenient to your cringing, which is why you're ignoring it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2015
  19. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    Moral judgements are the things you are calling arbitrary?
     
  20. Jadebrain_Prime Atheist now Registered Senior Member

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    No. You should have known this by now, because you should have actually read, and critically analyzed, the things you're trying to counter, by the time you make your counter-argument.

    The fact that you continue to refuse to do this is why you continue to fail, not only to refute what I'm saying, but also to demonstrate the character of someone who belongs in a debate.
     
  21. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    OK fuck off then.
     
  22. AlexG Like nailing Jello to a tree Valued Senior Member

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    Well stated.
     
  23. Jadebrain_Prime Atheist now Registered Senior Member

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    Spidergoat, you're the one who thought that ad lapidem arguments were valid refutations, which is why you tried to refute my entire position with nothing but an ad lapidem argument throughout the whole debate, and you had your ass handed to you on a golden platter, because you've proven nothing. The fact that you couldn't defeat me isn't why you're being indignant, however, since the ad lapidem arguments you and everyone else has exclusively relied on shows me that you don't care about victory or defeat in a debate, or even whether or not you are correct, or have any reasons to think that you are correct; no, you're indignant because you can't handle any challenge to your sensitive ego and your delusions of your own infallibility, and now you are facing a challenger that you can't simply dismiss without reason.

    When I first came here, I had my indignant moments, too. But that was different. My most aggressive attacker, "Q," made straw arguments against my claim, even after I clarified what I was saying, but that's because my articulation was so awful that it took a while for anyone here to even identify my argument as the Cosmological argument. At that point, I can't blame him for misrepresenting my arguments. In terms of the aggression, however, I've forgiven him a long time ago, because when a year or so had passed, and I looked back on that whole fiasco, I saw my immaturity and pettiness, and I saw that this warranted hostile criticism in and of itself. In that regard, "Q" was being honest; his derision of me may have been sarcastic or underhanded in their words, but his contempt for me was entirely clear, because when I showed who I was, he could openly treat me as I was, like someone who had just pranced right into a debate with a false argument and a self-image of hubris. He did to me what I have done to you now. This might not make sense to you right now, but I now want to find him, and I want to go further than "forgive him" as I already have done; I want to thank him, for openly treating me in the horrible way in which he had, and showing me how pathetic and awful I was.

    All of this started a month before my 14th birthday, and about two years later, I was able to look at what I had done, and I could see my errors, and I could admit that I was wrong. It took two years because of the snowball effect that began with bad articulation; were it not for that chaos, it wouldn't have taken so long. At 23 years old, I have outgrown countless flaws, because I could acknowledge them, and I could put in the effort to fix them. I'm not resting on my laurels, either; when I see that I am wrong, I will know that it is a problem, and I will fix the problem.

    I have no idea how old you are. I can see that you're a "Valued Senior Member," with upwards of 48,000 messages that you have posted, and I remember you from back when I first came here, but that's it. I will assume that you're older than I am, because you were a moderator here when I was going on 14. You are "valued" here, and you're a fixture here, and yet right now, you have given the post I've quoted, , because you have been challenged, not just on your fallacies, but on the kind of person you would have to be to make such fallacies, and repeat them after they have been challenged and defeated. The others here can be as indignant as they've always been, because they are trolls, who bother people for the sake thereof and get away unscathed due to their lack of shame; but it's clear that this has hurt you. Don't deny this; you are in pain. That pain means something. It means that, whether you have consciously realized it or not, your flaws have caused your tremendous failure. The pain doesn't come from what I've done here; it comes from you, and as long as you and the flaws that define you remain, the pain will never go away. There is only one thing left to do: You must realize that the person that you are right now is wrong, and you must work toward becoming someone better. You know what your flaws are, and you know that they must be fixed. If you forget, or if you falter, you will be reminded. For this reason, I will not report your post, not in spite of its enormity and wrongness, but because of its enormity and wrongness. It must remain visible, not so that others can see it, but so that you can see it, so that it can remind you of what needs to be fixed.

    Perhaps, someday, you will have shed these flaws, and become a better person; then, you will look back, and you will see this testament to how terrible you once were, and you won't be hurt by this reminder. No, you will see it, and you will be reminded that you have courageously faced, defeated, and conquered a great, formidable, and terrible foe.

    You will be reminded that you have conquered your own self.

    But that's not going to happen, if you don't get to work.
     
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