# Arizona Shooting Spree, Congresswoman, judge, among victims...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 8, 2011.

1. ### joepistoleDeacon BluesValued Senior Member

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Just a few hours ago Representative Gabby Gifford (Democrat) was shot in the head at a constitutent meeting and at least two individuals have died as a result.

There are a lot of facts that remain unknown at this point. But from the early reporting, it is clear the gunman had the opinon that the Constitution was not being appropriately followed.

How often have we seen folks here on Sciforums with their own unique intrepretations of the Constitution? Too many times.

Remember the Tea Party candidate for Senate in Nevada who advocated the second Amendment solution in lieu of the ballot box? Now we see it in action.

When are Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann and Anne Coulter going to tone down their rhetoric? When is the whacko rigiht wing going to stop calling anyone who disagrees with them traitors?

Enough is enough. This careless disregard for the truth, fear and hate mongering needs to stop now.

3. ### Echo3RomeoOne man wolfpackRegistered Senior Member

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All we know at this point are IDs of the shooter and some of his victims. Seems premature to speculate beyond that, no?

5. ### PandaemoniValued Senior Member

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The shooter seems a lot more plain old crazy (with his focus on how knowing English grammar as some sort of political tool, and his concerns over "mind control" by politicians) than he does a typical Tea Party advocate. He seems to want gold/silver backed currency...which is a link to some elements in the right wing (like Ron Paul). Still, so far, he seems a bit more uniquely disturbed, rather than a "representative" of the Tea Party.

7. ### joepistoleDeacon BluesValued Senior Member

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It has been reported in the states that the alleged attacker had his own unique interpretation of the Constitution. Reporters were able to view his web site before someone took it down. Apparently he did not like the "fiat" currency system either. Gosh why does that sound familar?

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-gabrielle-giffords

Last edited: Jan 8, 2011
8. ### Echo3RomeoOne man wolfpackRegistered Senior Member

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Well fuck me, that was fast. I stand corrected.

9. ### PandaemoniValued Senior Member

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What's important, I think we all agree, is that we use this tragedy as an opportunity for political gain, rather than waiting a few days to gather more facts.

He shot pro-gun rights Giffords, his favorite books included the Communist Manifesto, and he murdered a child, typical lefty. But he also opposes fiat money (which is more a cause celebre of some libertarians than it is of conservatives). He seems like he may be a supporter of "English only" policies, conservative bastard.

Wait...I think he has some right wing and some left wing views...making him a ...moderate?

Is it the left wing or the right wing that is afraid of government mind control? Maybe that's the tie breaker.

The real point being, can't we give it a few days to learn facts rather than jumping to conclusions and then (logical fallacy alert!) using or sketchy and limited information to paint all people of a particular political point of view with the same brush as we do this killer?

I point out, over at the Volokh Conspiracy they are quoting tweets from someone claiming to have known the killer well, that he was "very liberal" as recently as 2007. I think that blog has at least the most sensible statement when they say, "[t]he cause [of incidents like this] is usually mental illness, not political ideology." It's unfortunate that they undermine that sensible position by quoting from tweets of someone who could could well be lying for all we know.

10. ### Repo ManValued Senior Member

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Looking at his YouTube videos , this guy is full on nuts. Very likely to be diagnosed as full blown schizophrenic. Other than acting as a grain of sand for him to form his pearl of crazy, I really don't think this attack has much to do with politics.

11. ### pjdude1219screw watergate i want to know about zaragateValued Senior Member

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I think it more likely that he cracked and was someone who wasn't properly taken care of the military medical treatment facilities which are still suffering from bush era neglect.

12. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

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Given our crap health-care, I suspect we'll see more and more borderline schizophrenics crack in the times ahead. Expect a few interesting cults to arise too.

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Zeitgeist.

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15. ### milkweedValued Senior Member

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Notice his ramblings do not mention political party. Take notice of his alleged favorite readings.

The Facebook page is believed to be a fraud. Created today after the shooting by some reports.

Twitters by high school and college friends describe him as lefty until his alcohol poisoning when he dropped out.

Sorry, but this is the work of an individual, not really different than the uni-bomber.

16. ### joepistoleDeacon BluesValued Senior Member

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The arresting sheriff in a news conference has just rebuked those who have been using political "vitriol" to further their political agenda, saying those words have consequences.

"The sheriff pointed to the vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country as he denounced the shooting that claimed several of his friends as victims, including U.S. District Judge John Roll. The judge celebrated Mass on Saturday morning like he does every day before stopping by to say hello to his good friend Giffords.

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous," the sheriff said. "And unfortunately, Arizona I think has become the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_congresswoman_shot

When are the purveyors of this kind of smut going to apologize? When am I going to hear an apology from Palin, Bachman, limbaugh, levin, etc?

Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
17. ### joepistoleDeacon BluesValued Senior Member

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Well then you need to tell the sheriff, because that is not what he is saying. The sheriff is actively looking for another individual as a "person of interest". Perhaps you can set the sheriff straight with your information. I am sure he would be happy to talk to you if you have some relevant information.

18. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

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I'm not sure if I get your post?

We shouldn't criticize the Government? We should all get behind Obama as he surrounds himself with more Goldies and Morgans?

We live in a time when the Banking Oligarchy runs government policy - these guys make Big Oil look like piss ants. Unlike Enron they're To BIG to Fail and only getting BIGGER.

Millions of Americans can't afford their homes, are broke, insecure, unhappy, out of work (or at best can get a job as a WallMart Greeter or a "Career" at 7-11) all the while Wall Street fat cats walk away with 100s of millions (literally, some a stealing $200,$300 even \$600+ million a peace !!) as they blow up the economy!

You don't think that's going to piss people right off?!?!?

Of course people are pissed off and it's actually HEALTHY to voice that anger. Now, maybe if POTUS Obama grew some balls, accepts he's a one termer, and actually persecuted the Banksters (instead of hiring them as "advisers") some of that anger will be calmed. But, as we can see, that isn't going to happen.

Actually the Opposite!

They Won we Lost. Game Over. As they suck the last of the blood from Liberty expect more to come - much much more as things go from bad to worse and more people "snap".

19. ### BellsStaff Member

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The man who allegedly did this is clearly insane. However, politicians from all sides need to be aware that what they say can and will come back to haunt them in the future and sometimes, it is because of tragedies like this:

Shocking tactics often used by all sides of politics.. I guess Ms Palin and others are wishing they had not posted it all, or maybe they don't care, but alas they did and the questions will forever be asked of what role they may have had in leading a madman on his shooting rampage.

The Post advised that Palin removed her 'map' from her website.. One wonders why it was up there in the first place and what the hell could she have been thinking.. but yeah, you get that..

Incoming platitudes and hypocrisy.. ignoring the fact that the words less than a year ago talked of getting rid of her, taken down with cross hairs pointed at her state with her name clearly sated, and while discussing shooting events to get rid of her, etc..

20. ### Michael歌舞伎Valued Senior Member

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While I agree that Palin and Limbaugh et.al. are heat-merchants, I look at them as a kind of mirror in that they reflect a segment of society - one growing by the day. It wasn't Palin or Limbaugh or any of these other idiots who hired a JP Morgan Executive as Chief of Staff. Obama made that choice.

For most Americans it'd be like inviting your sisters' rapist over to dinner.

Palin etal. are just tapping into (and greatly profiting off) that anger, they're not creating it.

I was talking to my mate the other day. He used to make 70K per year. Now he makes around 35K. Of course he can't afford his home, so he simply stopped making payments, is now renting it out, and is now in a bigger nicer house. Shit is upside down and people are starting to go crazy. Being good little consumers isn't cutting the mustard any longer.

21. ### joepistoleDeacon BluesValued Senior Member

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So you are sanctioning political violence?

People can disagree without the threat of violence.

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23. ### adoucetteCaca OccursValued Senior Member

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Of course on the first page it says:

This site is NOT authorized by Governor Palin, her staff, or any other candidate or committee