Are those who study the theory of relativity crazy?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by TonyYuan, Oct 12, 2023.

  1. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    Q: Let me summarize it for you: What you mean is that if the mass of the sun is absolutely symmetrical around the center of mass, then the space around the sun will not have any curvature. If there are no other celestial bodies around except the earth. Then the Earth would not have an elliptical orbit, and the Earth would fall directly onto the Sun, right?

    Here are the answers from relativity experts:
    A: Quite right, if the mass of the Sun were absolutely symmetrical around the center of mass, then the space around the Sun would not have any curvature. If there were only the sun and the earth in the solar system, and there was no gravitational interference from other celestial bodies, the earth would move directly around the sun along a straight path and would not form an elliptical orbit.

    But it should be noted that this situation does not exist in the actual universe. Because there are a variety of celestial bodies in the solar system, including other planets, stars, etc., their gravitational interactions will cause planetary orbits to exhibit complex motion trajectories, such as elliptical orbits or other more complex motion trajectories.


    Are those who study the theory of relativity crazy?
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Welcome back Tony!

    To answer your question - no. I don't believe you asked that question anywhere other than here, or that you got that answer from any kind of relativity expert. I think you made them both up to feed your ego (again.)
     
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  5. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    You can think whatever you want, it's your freedom. I will also continue to share some emails from some senior relativity researchers.
    I am not an expert on astronomy so I cannot answer your question whether your calculations are right. But since 5 out of 6 answers are correct ... there are good reasons to assume also your Venus-computation is correct. But since I have worked with GR for 50 years now - I can assure this theory is misleading. So, we are stuck in the classical problem - we know THAT GR is misleading - but not HOW. But we will find out some day! This problem in fact has stalled all science --- we know THAT it doesn't work - but cannot yet say HOW .... This is a serious scientific problem ... the sciences refuse to address the issue of theirs own impotencies. This attitude is called Ockham's razor - or refusing to cut down the sick branch you yourself are sitting on. However --- children know how to solve this problem - jump off the branch first and cut it down afterwards! You are very likely correct about GRT --- but back to Newton is unfortunately a disaster ... There are other ways -- but I think it would be dangerously unwise do discuss this matter via email ....

    I don’t think it’s surprising that the theory of relativity, as the world’s stupidest theory, has existed in this world for more than 100 years, because the “geocentric theory” also came from the West and lasted for hundreds of years.

     
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  7. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    GPT is trying its best to defend the status of the theory of relativity, but GPT is obviously not as cunning as humans. Its honesty will tell how stupid the theory of relativity is. Why not try to talk to GPT?

    James is the king of scientific forums and clears out any comments that challenge and oppose the theory of relativity. The great James will tell you that GPT is worthless. GPT was abandoned by the great James because of its honesty.
     
  8. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    We look forward to the great James and the great relativity theorists using GR to calculate the orbital data of the planets in the solar system, thus proving that GR is the most accurate, perfect and greatest gravity theory in the world. Can you calculate the orbital data? What else would you do besides praising Einstein’s beautiful butt curves? !
     
  9. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    There are many people and organizations in the world who oppose the theory of relativity, but when you see the theories and ideas they put forward that are so-called against the theory of relativity, you will silently tell God that it is better to let the theory of relativity continue to rule the world. Some people wanted me to join them in opposing the theory of relativity, but I refused without hesitation. If one monster is destroyed so that another monster can be born, it is better to let the current monster continue. The theory of gravity was already established by Newton hundreds of years ago. Newtonian gravity just needed to be corrected, and we've already done that! The feast of relativity and anti-relativity is over.
     
  10. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    Planetary orbital precession ("/century)
    Planetary | MINE | NASA
    Mercury | 570~572 | 575
    Venus | 200~270 | 204
    Earth | 1140~1170 | 1145
    Mars | 1560~1600 | 1628
    Jupiter | 600~1000 | 655
    Saturn | 1600~2200 | 1950
    Uranus | 140~600 | 334

    What NASA gives is an average value. The real orbital precession is constantly changing. It is difficult for us to calculate a fixed average value through a limited orbital period.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/350617258_Gravitational_Fields_and_Gravitational_Waves

    I have given the planetary orbital precession data. Relativistic theorists, where are your data?
     
  11. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    In any case, if we put aside our theoretical differences, I think you and James R, the chemist, are all worthy of getting to know and communicating with each other. I feel like home here, and it is an honor for me to get to know all the physicists, scholars, and professors here.
    Treat our differences like family squabbles and enjoy the moment.
     
  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    39,421
    TonyYuan:

    Regarding your opening post to this thread:
    The answer to your question is: in most cases, no - they are not demonstrably "crazy".

    With this, we could close this thread, since your question is answered. However, I will make some other comments.

    Your opening post asks a question about "those who study the theory of relativity", but there's no evidence in your opening post that what you have quoted comes from anybody who studies the theory of relatively. Therefore, the quote in your opening post appears to be utterly irrelevant to the thread topic.

    It is strange that you have not named the people you quoted in your opening post. Why won't you tell us who posted these things? Did you make them up yourself, perhaps?

    Since you didn't provide the information, I tried a brief search myself. I have been unable to find the material you quoted anywhere on the interwebs. What, then, is your source of these quotes?
    Again, you quote an unnamed person who you claim is a "senior relativity researcher". How can we check that what you say is true?

    Also, it doesn't bode well that this "senior researcher" isn't an expert in the relevant area you're questioning him or her about. Why didn't you ask an expert in the relevant subject matter, instead?
     
  13. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    852
    Relativistic theorist:The space around the Sun is not curved symmetrically like a sphere, but rather curved asymmetrically due to the influence of the distribution of solar mass and energy.

    Tony:If the mass of the Sun is absolutely symmetric around its center, then according to your statement, the space around the Sun will not curve, correct?
    Relativistic theorist:Yes, if the mass of the Sun is absolutely symmetric around its center, then according to the principles of general relativity, the space around the Sun will not curve.
    In general relativity, the distribution of mass and energy determines the curvature of space-time. If the mass of the Sun is completely symmetric around its center, it will generate a uniformly distributed gravitational field that will not curve space-time, as the gravitational effects in all directions will cancel each other out.
    Therefore, if the mass of the Sun is absolutely symmetric around its center, then according to the viewpoint of general relativity, the space around the Sun will be flat and have no curvature effect. This means that other objects moving around the Sun will follow the description of Newtonian mechanics rather than being influenced by the curvature of space-time in general relativity.

    Tony:According to your analysis, the curvature of space-time around the Sun is not only determined by the total mass of the Sun but also by the distribution of mass in the Sun, correct?
    Relativistic theorist:Yes, your understanding is correct. The curvature of space-time around the Sun is influenced not only by the total mass of the Sun but also by the distribution of its mass.
    In general relativity, the mass and energy of an object curved space-time. The distribution of mass in the Sun is crucial for the curvature of space-time around it. If the mass of the Sun is unevenly distributed, i.e., the mass is asymmetrically distributed in space, it will cause non-symmetric curvature of space-time around it.
    This is because the uneven distribution of mass in the Sun will produce a non-uniform gravitational field in space, which will cause uneven curvature effects in space-time due to the strength and direction of this field. Therefore, the distribution of mass in the Sun has a significant impact on the degree and shape of curvature in space-time around it.
    In summary, both the total mass of the Sun and its mass distribution influence the curvature of space-time around it. An asymmetric distribution of mass in the Sun will cause non-symmetric curvature in space-time.

    Tony:“The distribution of solar mass has an important impact on the curvature degree and shape of surrounding space-time”, then may I ask which direction is space-time curved around the Sun currently?

    Relativistic theorist:Unfortunately, I cannot determine specifically which direction space-time around the Sun is curved at present. The curvature direction and amount are very complex and require using complex mathematical tools and physical theories for calculation and research.

    Currently, our understanding of the curvature degree and direction of space-time around the Sun is still limited, and more in-depth research and observation are needed to obtain accurate conclusions. At the same time, as the Sun is a complex natural object, its mass distribution and movement status may both change over time, so studying its curvature also needs to consider these factors.

    Tony's comment:Einstein knew "which direction space-time around the Sun curves towards and how much it curves" 100 years ago! But currently, this Relativistic Theorist seems unaware. If you still have any sense of duty as a physicist, please step forward and align with truth!

    Richard Fitzpatrick,我不得不承认这样一个事实,我的理论和GR存在惊人的相似,我说清楚了爱因斯坦想说,但是他一直没有说清楚的东西。GR给出了一些原始的想法,但是GR是逻辑混乱的。I have to admit the fact that my theory is surprisingly similar to GR. I made it clear what Einstein wanted to say, but he never made it clear. GR gives some original ideas, but GR is logically confusing.
     
  14. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    我告诉你他的个人信息,然后等着你去攻击他吗?Do I tell you his personal information and then wait for you to attack him?
     
  15. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    39,421
    You have proven yourself too stupid to demonstrate any flaw in the theory of relativity. That's a simple fact.

    You make yourself look even stupider when you try to insult a theory that you clearly don't even understand.

    Also, you sound a bit racist. You seem to be a bit upset about "the West"? Why is that? Would you like to explain to us your issues with "the West"? I'd like to explore that with you; it could be interesting. Where are you from, Tony? Is your home the greatest country in the world, or do you (unfortunately) live in the evil "West"? Clearly, you're allowed to use the internet, wherever you are. I guess we can all be thankful that we're not deprived of your insights.

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    I don't think you understand what GPT is, Tony. It's a large language model AI. It understands nothing about the theory of relativity.

    It's not a god for you to worship, Tony. Try to get some perspective.
    Thank you so much for your kind thoughts, Tony. It is very pleasant to hear that you hold me in such high regard that you consider me to be like a king. Flattery will get you everywhere!

    Unfortunately, you are factually incorrect about me doing any "clearing out of comments that challenge and oppose the theory of relativity". A brief search of this forum would have corrected that particular misapprehension of yours. I have never deleted a post on sciforums because it challenged or opposed the theory of relativity. Not once.

    Will you apologise to me for telling a lie about me, Tony? Will you retract your claim? I hope you will.
    No. That's wrong, too, Tony. Your score so far on claims about me: zero out of 3. Well, maybe 1 out of three if we give you a conceded pass on the "king of scientific forums" claim.
    That's zero out of 4.
    Of course. We have successfully sent probes to the far corners of the solar system. The orbital data of the planets in the solar system was calculated decades ago.

    In fact, GR's success in accurately calculating the anomalous precession in the orbit of the planet Mercury was one of the experimental results that led to GR gaining status as our most accurate theory of gravity. You should research this history for yourself, Tony.
    Are these insults your substitute for a proof that GR is flawed or incorrect? There are a very poor substitute Tony. I think you should probably learn some physics, rather than learning insults. It would be a better use of your time, in the long run. All you get from the insults is a reputation for being like a foul-mouthed child. Surely that's not what you want?
    Newtonian gravitation is fine, within appropriate limits. GR reduces to Newtonian gravity in those limits, for the most part. However, when put head to head on certain things, it's just a fact that GR is correct and Newton is wrong. So, GR wins.
    Who cares? Your data is based on a worthless, incorrect "theory" of your own which has been thoroughly debunked, even on this forum alone. I'll stick with the GR and observational data instead, thanks.
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    39,421
    You are the one attacking him, Tony. Your opening post attacks him, does it not?

    I think you just made up this person. This isn't a real person.
     
  17. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    I have always believed that the Western world represented by Europe has made a huge contribution to the advancement of human science. But just like the geocentric theory, there are also evil forces in the West that hinder the development of science. These are forces of a religious nature driven by interests.
    I have always regarded this place as my base, James R. If we put aside our theoretical differences, we can become very good friends. Maybe one day we will meet in the future. Hahaha, will we have a boxing match? ?
     
  18. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    Don't doubt what I say, and I will not make this physicist public. There is by no means just one physicist who opposes the theory of relativity. There are many physics Ph.D.s in China who oppose the theory of relativity, but they dare not openly oppose it. They are cowards and they are afraid of losing everything.
     
  19. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    852
    Relativistic theorist:The space around the Sun is not curved symmetrically like a sphere, but rather curved asymmetrically due to the influence of the distribution of solar mass and energy.

    Tony:If the mass of the Sun is absolutely symmetric around its center, then according to your statement, the space around the Sun will not curve, correct?
    Relativistic theorist:Yes, if the mass of the Sun is absolutely symmetric around its center, then according to the principles of general relativity, the space around the Sun will not curve.
    In general relativity, the distribution of mass and energy determines the curvature of space-time. If the mass of the Sun is completely symmetric around its center, it will generate a uniformly distributed gravitational field that will not curve space-time, as the gravitational effects in all directions will cancel each other out.
    Therefore, if the mass of the Sun is absolutely symmetric around its center, then according to the viewpoint of general relativity, the space around the Sun will be flat and have no curvature effect. This means that other objects moving around the Sun will follow the description of Newtonian mechanics rather than being influenced by the curvature of space-time in general relativity.

    Tony:According to your analysis, the curvature of space-time around the Sun is not only determined by the total mass of the Sun but also by the distribution of mass in the Sun, correct?
    Relativistic theorist:Yes, your understanding is correct. The curvature of space-time around the Sun is influenced not only by the total mass of the Sun but also by the distribution of its mass.
    In general relativity, the mass and energy of an object curved space-time. The distribution of mass in the Sun is crucial for the curvature of space-time around it. If the mass of the Sun is unevenly distributed, i.e., the mass is asymmetrically distributed in space, it will cause non-symmetric curvature of space-time around it.
    This is because the uneven distribution of mass in the Sun will produce a non-uniform gravitational field in space, which will cause uneven curvature effects in space-time due to the strength and direction of this field. Therefore, the distribution of mass in the Sun has a significant impact on the degree and shape of curvature in space-time around it.
    In summary, both the total mass of the Sun and its mass distribution influence the curvature of space-time around it. An asymmetric distribution of mass in the Sun will cause non-symmetric curvature in space-time.

    Tony:“The distribution of solar mass has an important impact on the curvature degree and shape of surrounding space-time”, then may I ask which direction is space-time curved around the Sun currently?

    Relativistic theorist:Unfortunately, I cannot determine specifically which direction space-time around the Sun is curved at present. The curvature direction and amount are very complex and require using complex mathematical tools and physical theories for calculation and research.

    Currently, our understanding of the curvature degree and direction of space-time around the Sun is still limited, and more in-depth research and observation are needed to obtain accurate conclusions. At the same time, as the Sun is a complex natural object, its mass distribution and movement status may both change over time, so studying its curvature also needs to consider these factors.

    Tony's comment:Einstein knew "which direction space-time around the Sun curves towards and how much it curves" 100 years ago! But currently, this Relativistic Theorist seems unaware. If you still have any sense of duty as a physicist, please step forward and align with truth!
     
  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    39,421
    Tony:

    Are these quotes (first posted by you in post #10, above) labelled 'Relativistic theorist' from Professor Richard Fitzpatrick, at the University of Texas in Austin?

    Are these private communications to you from the Professor?

    Has the Professor given you permission to publish this material on an internet forum?

    Please confirm.
     
  21. TonyYuan Gravitational Fields and Gravitational Waves Registered Senior Member

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    Professor Richard is my friend and he strongly supports the theory of relativity. Don't guess who said what I posted. What you have to think about is whether the words are correct. If you think the words are wrong, then please give me the correct answer.
     
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Tony:
    What about the United States? Any contribution there? What about Australia? New Zealand? South America?
    I agree. There are people who would like to hinder the development of science in all nations. Some of them are certainly driven by religion. Some have other agendas.

    This is not a problem restricted to "the West".

    Your own theory of planetary orbits is doing nothing to advance science, and your mindless criticism of the theory of relativity looks to me like you want to hinder the development of science. So, something about people in glass houses...
    You're barely here. You seem to visit occasionally to make drive-by attacks on the theory of relativity. You clearly don't know much about that theory, but some idea has got into your head that relativity is evil, or something.

    Do you like this place perhaps because you've been banned from other science forums?
    For all I know, Tony, you could be a great guy to share a beer and laugh with. You're a bit kooky when it comes to relativity, but you might be normal enough when it comes to other things.

    Still, I'm a little worried that you seem so angry about a scientific theory. Why is that?
    You already have, haven't you? If you don't have his permission to publish private communications, I can remove his name. However, do you think it is appropriate for us to discuss his words to you, when he is not here to give us his side of the story?
    I'm sure you're right. There are good physicists and incompetent physicists. There are experts and non-experts, even within the field of physics. People who comment outside their field of expertise can make mistakes. Being an expert in one thing doesn't mean you're an expert in anything else.
    Why? Is it state policy that people are supposed to believe in relativity as a dogmatic fact? That's not how science is done in "the West". Nobody in the West is telling professors that they have to believe in the theory of relativity, or else.
    What are the consequences of saying that relativity is wrong, in China?
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Okay.
    So, you labelled one side of the conversation you quoted as "Relativistic theorist". Those are not the words of Professor Fitzpatrick? Whose words are they, then?

    I note that Prof. Fitzpatrick does not seem to be a "relativistic theorist", based on a brief web search for him. Is he the one asking the questions, then? Is it you giving the answers, Tony? Were you pretending to be a "relativistic theorist"?
    If I tell you what I think, will you take my words and post them in some other conversation you're having with somebody else on the internet? Will you be demanding that somebody else explain what's wrong with what I wrote?

    Why don't you tell me what you think is wrong with this "relativistic theorists" answers? Then we can discuss what you think and what I think. But you tell me what you think, first. I mean, clearly you think there is something "crazy" about these things you have quoted. What is it that's crazy, and why?
     

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