Anyone use Ubuntu?

Discussion in 'Computer Science & Culture' started by skaught, Apr 19, 2009.

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  1. przyk squishy Valued Senior Member

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    By the way, since app installation has been mentioned in this thread a few times, I'll say my experience is that most of the apps I use (maybe 90%) are in standard repositories and I installed many of them with a command no more complicated than "yum install vlc" (there's a GUI interface to yum available for those who don't like the CL), which also automatically handles dependencies on other packages. The other real practical benefit to the package management system is when it comes to keeping the system up to date: "yum update" checks for upgrades for that same 90% of my Linux system. If I haven't upgraded in a while, it's not uncommon for yum to report over a gigabyte of updates ready, which I'll let download overnight. The system isn't perfect and I've seen glitches (for some reason at one point I started having clashes between i386 and x64 versions of the same packages), but overall it works well.

    For packages not in standard repositories, my experience is that many of them are in .rpm packages (I don't know how many .deb packages are available for Debian-based systems like Ubuntu) which are easy to install (double-click and type in the root password), though there the annoyance is when dependencies sometimes appear that you have to hunt down. Otherwise installing from source usually isn't too hard (if you aren't scared of the CL), though again there can be problems with apps failing to find shared libraries (though Windows has its own problem here: so-called "DLL Hell"). On average, however, I'd say installing and updating software is one thing I find more convenient under Linux than under Windows.
     
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  3. stbalaji2u Registered Member

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    I get the CD from ubuntu org. and as soon as i boot my pc with that cd. it freezes

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  5. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Was it 9.04?
     
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  7. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

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    There are a number of freeware programs that accomplish this task in Windows.

    Specialized university level research. Not necessarily suited to the everyday desktop.

    You're basically agreeing with me. I've always maintained that Linux is a specialized OS, usually for developers (might I add or other trained professionals). Indeed, I still do not expect an astrophysicist to know a single thing about programming...I expect his IT department to employ a Linux developer or two in order to facilitate his research.

    But you are trained (if undocumented) Linux professional; and I might venture to guess by necessity. Your internship in astrophysics is (circumstantial) evidence of the fact that the need was present and you certainly didn't want to have a delay while waiting for someone else to script the same task.

    However...my problem is that tech-heads tend to forget that we are the minority...and while Linux may indeed work for them (not "us" because Linux has proven time and again a wasteful endeavour in providing services to my staff and users)...the majority of users do not need the headache of learning it. Further, the "programmability" of Linux says nothing of its viability in deposing Windows.
     
  8. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

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    There is no flaw in my argument, because the first few points targeted Windows. No one brought up concrete MacOS points. I therefore did not address it.

    Since you DID bring it up however...MacOS is indeed pretty easy to use, however IMO miss a few designs that Windows addresses. Further, as you pointed out, the software library for MacOS is extremely limited when compared to Windows and EVEN Linux...and MacOS runs on hardware that isn't necessarily worth the price for pretty boxes.

    You also miss the point that I've brought up before...Linux addresses a niche market. You can extend this point to Apple machines and MacOS.

    You also presume much about me. I've reached the level of "gamer" on console (long since removing gaming from my desktop). I've tried Ubuntu, Fedora, Mandriva and lately CentOS and I've come to the conclusion each time that I have no current use for them. Sitting on your so called advantage of "tweaking" is a fallacy...I have no need of tweaking an OS, if Windows accomplishes all the tasks I require from my PCs (with considerably less stress than "tweaking"). This is the age of convenience.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  9. John99 Banned Banned

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    i think macs ARE worth more than windows systems but that is an opinion. i can go with any OS but windows has traditionally been the weakest. due mostly to it having to be, or trying to be, compatible with so much different hardware.
     
  10. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

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    I see no weakness in that.

    Windows has suffered a number of various bandwagon attacks and unfortunate marketing gaffes. I've always maintained that while Windows holds the market majority...it is a subset of that selfsame group that is its worst enemy. You know, the ones that install any tripe and rubbish that pops up in their web browser (let's not start a browser war here...pop-ups are browser independent). Just yesterday I removed one of those malware programs that pose as an antivirus from a user's laptop. Of course she'll never blame herself...she'll blame the OS. Typical.

    These are the inept users you wish to place at the helm of a Linux box? (not specifically John99...I refer to "you" folks with their Linux placards)
    My prediction? After an attempt at migration, they'll get an iPhone

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  11. John99 Banned Banned

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    i agree and it is very difficult to pry a casual user away from windows OS. its weird too because there isnt that much marketing or advertising.
     
  12. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    yeah the niche market of server admins, developers, gamers, and people who want free stuff... oh wait those are not niche markets at least not the last one. Imagine a car that was easy to modify and was adored by the hot roders, and to top it of the car is for free, sure it a little thing and it drives like a go cart and it advertised so badly few no it exists, but its modifiable, customizable, capable of great performance, and is fucking free, and you have the balls to say its for a nitche market?

    Worse I over estimated you: console scrubs are a waste of oxygen.

    The real conclusion you should have made is that your inept, you should have realized this when you were sucking on a console.

    Some prefer convenience over performance, so be it, a Mac awaits your needs yuppie console scrub. Its and age of the marching morons and there will be no John Barlow to save us.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  13. John99 Banned Banned

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  14. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    No fret yuppie, your mac also has a very expensive Unix command terminal behind it all.
     
  15. stateofmind seeker of lies Valued Senior Member

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    lol
     
  16. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

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    Imagine a free car that was modifiable by everyone, including sanctimonious pretender mechanics, who thump their chests and declare themselves a professional, who ends up f***ing up the design royally.

    More to the point, since the car is free, and presumably flooding the market...guess what that does to our roads...and environment...who's going to pay for that "technical support"?

    Linux has not developed beyond specialized application hosting (server apps, or as our friend przyk pointed out; laboratories)...more to the point, it is not ready for widespread desktop usage. The OP appeared to be a typical desktop user, with no real reason to switch other than "a friend said try it". (No slight intended to the OP poster)


    I am a degree holding, certified server/network administrator with a over a decade of experience and a thousand users, all happy with their Windows machines (save the sole Linux guru).

    Try again.

    My younger gaming days was done on PC before I moved to console when my cushy job afforded me the luxury of dabbling in various gadgetry just for the heck of it.

    Try again.

    Maybe you were mistreated by a bad pirated copy of Windows. Whose fault is that?

    And thanks for the outburst too. Yet another reason why Linux will not overtake Windows anytime soon. Many forums I visit are rife with snide remarks...not dissimilar to the tirade you just finished. With technical support attitude like that, who will ever want to even try Linux? Might I direct this question to you Skaught?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  17. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    You take the analogy to far, try to separating reality from fiction next time.

    This is were we disagree, linux is ready for mainstream use, I used it for email, internet, scifinder, photoediting, documents, flowcharts, etc and rarely if every had to type in a command, it works fine and solid. The OP may be considering switching because it could save him a hundred bucks or more, you give me crap for guess you and you have the balls to guess others?

    riiiigggghhhhhttt, even still sound like your preference in OS was pre-set by how you were trained but I'm sure you will deny that as well.

    why should I? I accurately describe you by your own admission: yuppie console scrub.

    My version of windows was purchased, it works fine from my perspective, no better or worse then ubuntu, this being XP, Vista worked like shit, and no that was not pirated either.

    Try again.

    Technical support? I'm technical support???

    Try again.
     
  18. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

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    Ah, but you started the analogy...with a fictional premise. There is no free car that is easily customizable. And therein lies the problem. "EASILY". You think it's easy to customize Linux. That puts you in the 3% desktop bracket that Windows doesn't satisfy.


    Install something. Change your IP to a static address. Without using command line. Try to make it a media center, with TV.

    Better yet, when a problem occurs, try to resolve it in 5 minutes...instead of 3 days trolling forums. I challenged Linux proponents to do so since Windows 2000, and so far none of them has been able to prove me wrong.

    Of course...we assume that the OP already has Windows (this debate might be moot if he was considering changing from Slackware to Ubuntu lol). However, you are only considering the hundred bucks initial purchase price.

    1. Who says he has to buy a new version of Windows? He hasn't
    2. IMO the extra 100 bucks is more than worth it when I never have to deal with supporting the Linux OS after acquisition.

    You can choose to remain skeptical if you wish. However I'm stating facts. I'm eminently qualified to speak of advantages and disadvantages of both OSs.


    This is an opinion. And opinion of one who dislikes others disagreeing with him. Why bother debating when you throw a virtual tantrum?


    Sure I will...glad you admitted that XP isn't the roadkill that Linux users tend to make it out to be.

    I agree with you to a point. Vista annoyed many of its users, including myself at the beginning. However, despite its rocky start, I do acknowledge it as a viable OS, and having tested Seven, am of the opinion that Seven is what Vista should have been. I eagerly await its release, backed up by Microsoft's continued thorough support knowledge base.



    I know you probably aren't. People who are hired as tech support are usually nice.

    However, "n00bs" - as it were - to Linux must face an initial forum wall of bad-attitude, self praising folks, who ascribe labels to people they haven't even met. Even myself, a qualified systems admin, was faced with awful support, maze like forums and unsolved mysteries of the Linux world. I acknowledge the use of Linux for server apps in my environment, but I would never cause my helpdesk staff to be inundated with Linux problems from users who don't know better.

    From a mom who wants a recipe database, to a lawyer who simply wants his Linux PC to run his CRM...these people merely want tasks done...they don't wish to waste their professional time CODING and OS or trudging thru support mires, when Windows simply works. You don't seem to get this point however.
     
  19. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    it is "easy", most customizations now can be done with a GUI, which I think more then 3% of desktops users can handle, or else they would still be using a typer writer!

    Yep: there is synaptic which comes with ubuntu, there also the even more friendly "Add/Remove Applications" program on in the home menu. You just open, search for what you want and download, it installs, done, never a command prompt comes up or is needed. I can even install some windows programs off their web page with wine, download them with a click, compile them with a right click on their icon and install them with a left click!

    Yep: click on "network setting" icon or in the menu>system>Prefrences: you can destinate your IP or leave it blank (auto-generated, or set it all to "roaming") for your wireless and ethernet, connecting to a modem directly is honestly something I have no clue about though.

    What do you define as a media center? Any computer with a DVI or S-video in/outport can be a "Media Center", wireless controllers can plug a relay station into the USB port and no driver is needed as it emulates a keyboard/mouse. By the way guess what OS TiVo uses, linux. Freevo was made for linux and works on everything from SuSe to ubuntu, even ported to windows. Myth Tv only works on linux or BSD. Myth TV for ubuntu and (some called) Me TV, can be downloaded via Add/Remove Applications, providing full DVR abilities for your computer (at least based on the descriptions on "Add/Remove Applications", and assuming you have the hardware). Price for all these software, nothing.

    Depends on the problem, as there are problems with windows which also can't be solved without "trolling forums" or calling techsupport, and any old gruff developer could solve many problems on any platform in under 5 minutes.

    Yeah I'm not considering free office apps, free advance photoeditor, free hundreds of programs of every nature on synpatic and add/remove apps, etc, which are just a few clicks away from installing!

    Yeah in your opinion, yuppies usually think their opinion matters. Truth is almost no ones does... except maybe politicians and kings simply because they are calling the shots.

    Do you know what a "begging the question" fallacy is?

    If you knew so much why not synaptic and the add/remove apps program? Its a fucking GUI, its not some arbitrary unixoid command (though I think "sudo get-app ..." does the same thing), the icons right fucking on the desktop control bar and you did not know it can download and install programs without the need for a terminal???

    yeah yuppies hate that.

    Tantrum? I think you seriously misjudge my emotional state: I've been nothing but giggling with joy this whole time, no anger, no contempt, just joyful prodding and pissing on you.

    I don't really notice other Linux user dissing it either, except when Beryl came out then XP became "ugly" but I never was for aesthetics, except when I want to impress people. Vista has been are bitch though, though I think Win7 may become a total improvement, to bad its not a free upgrade! Microsoft enjoys butt pirating its costumers "yeah are last OS sucked, here one that fixes all those problems, by the way you need to pay us again to get the vista that actually works (no pun on vxworks intended). Not with Linux though, new OS every ~18 months

    I was not even volunteering to be techsupport!

    They were all nice and courteous with me when I started, no one called me a noob, perhaps you did not go to the ubuntu official forum, I could understand some back ally forum being nothing but a circle jerk for nerds *cough**cough*.

    ubuntu "simply works", Vista not so much so. You don't seem to get this point however.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  20. stateofmind seeker of lies Valued Senior Member

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  21. stateofmind seeker of lies Valued Senior Member

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  22. przyk squishy Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe. How flexible are they? My sister wanted the files renamed in a sequential manner across several directories, and she'd already started renaming.

    I do manipulate text files and such a lot more than I otherwise might if I wasn't a physics student, but these are auxiliary tasks and not central to the project work I've done. I specifically didn't mention the odd analysis programs and Monte Carlo simulations I've worked on in Fortran and C++ for this reason: those are what I'd call specialized. Scripting is much easier and simpler than full blown programming.

    Well I was mostly clarifying a sentiment AlphaNumeric originally expressed (about feeling a little helpless under Windows). I'm well aware that it's one most people (maybe even a lot of Linux users) probably wouldn't identify with.

    While a typical Linux installation will probably mean more work and less hardware support for the foreseeable future for the average user than Windows, it's still a general purpose OS you can use for web browsing and office work. I'll admit I don't know if there are any cookery apps, but saying Linux is a "specialized" or "niche" operating system is probably going a bit far.

    Many physicists do enough programming for this to sound a bit like suggesting physicists shouldn't know a single thing about math, and should rely on the math department for the mathematical aspects of their work (though just as physicists have a reputation for being sloppy mathematicians, they often aren't particularly careful about structuring their programs - the worst are the ones who still seem to think FORTRAN 77 is state of the art). Scientists and engineers are the reason FORTRAN has had built in support for complex numbers since the late 50's/early 60's.

    No, I just don't need someone else to write ten-line scripts for me (which doesn't make me a Linux professional). I'll readily write scripts that automate stuff away - for example I've used awk to generate repetitive bits of LaTeX code for reports and even simple (though long) POV-Ray source files and movies from the results of simulations. Did I need awk? No, and the supervisors I had on those projects have probably never heard of it, but it made my life that little bit easier and it's a utility I'll miss on a Windows box.
     
  23. Gustav Banned Banned

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    lets see here
    unix systems give you, out of the box, a user acct without admin privs
    win gives you an admin acct

    sop for win outta be to create an acct in the user group
    from there, "run as" (sudo) to your hearts content

    ja
    a more even handed comparison
    i think
     
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