Any people with real psychic/paraphysical abilities here?

is this not simply because we lack the expertise and equipment to make such assessments? Or are they saying that regardless of equipment and expertise these events are strictly random.

a bit like the uncertainty principle yes?

another high faluting discussion that one...

 

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Take a guess.
We can't know which way it will turn until we've finally (if ever) made the ultimate piece of equipment and armed ourselves with the ultimate mathematical tools.
How can you declare whether anything is actually unknowable or simply "not knowable at this time" until you're 100% certain that we already know everything there is that IS knowable?
Whatever we don't know then will be, by definition, the unknowable stuff...

Admitted there things that we can look at and say "Okay, we can find that out if we can build a better..." or "we can definitely see a lead on the mathematics for this", but other things are currently uncategorisable, no?

 

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the point though is that in it's pure form randomness cannot be proved to be other than a man made algorithm that isn't even random because it is determined by that algorithm...

 

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of course you have heard of the butterfly effect yes?
"when a butterfly in Australia flaps it's wings once 10 people in London catch a cold" sort of thingo...

 

Man-made?
One definition of "random" is that we can't write an algorithm.
Hell, the vast majority of so-called "random number generators" that we use are only pseudo-random.

 

Which is not about randomness, that's "sensitivity to initial conditions".
Read Gleick: Chaos.
http://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Making-...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247364503&sr=8-1

 

and thats the point.....
true randomness [ chance ] is a myth...thus pure coincidence [no congruancy] is also....
so the areguement boils down to the value placed uplon an apparent congruancy and in most cases the value is not realistic and usually quite trivial. However in this particular case [MJ] the probability of his testimony being trivial if not a fraud is quite low IMO.
if you are interested in pursuing this issue further I would be happy to run a thread that will clarify it even better using a parnormal evidence thought experiment?

 

No: particle decay (among others).
That's why, when genuine randomness is required (say deep cryptography) particle decay counts are used (or cosmic radiation counts, or other random natural phenomenon).

 

we shall have to agree to disagree....as I see a fundamental difference between "apparent randomness" and "true randomness" which you do not agree with. Fair enough ...

 

I'd suggest (and put money on it [if I actually had any]) that the chance of it being trivial is a near-certainty.
Fraud I doubt (except for self-deception).

 

just out of curiosity:
why do you you feel he may be self deluded? what basis do you have to make that judgement?
I have no reason to make that call so I wonder why you do?
[yes I know most of the standard answers so I am looking for something a little deeper if possible?]

 

Quite simple.
As I've stated several times, we dream many times and ignore all the ones that don't fit with later events.
It's a typical human trait, we don't just recognise patterns we invent them when they don't actually exist.
It's a natural tendency to dismiss altogether any data that doesn't fit the perceived (false) pattern and convince ourselves that the pattern is real even when it isn't.

We only take note of the coincidences/ congruences and ignore the discrepancies, it's a subconscious desire for recognisable patterns.

 

so the posters claim to having knowledge of MJ's passing whilst asleep prior to hearing about it after waking up is a fraud. A fabrication, and a construction to serve some deep subconscious need.....

Fair enough, 'tis your opinion...you are entitled to it.

 

Re-read his post.
His dream was that a girl he knew who was fan of Jackson's appeared to be sad. Jackson didn't feature in the dream.
But once he heard on the news that Jackson was dead he put 2 and 2 together and got 11.
He decided that she was sad in his dream because Jackson was dead.
He made the "connection" after he'd woken and seen the news.

How many previous times had he dreamt of this woman being sad, and not the sort of "sad" you'd associate with a so-called huge fan knowing Jackson was dead: "she gave me a sad face, and then I guess she looked to the ground, while she leaned on the window."?
Oh, a "sad face", followed by "and then I guess she looked at to the ground". "I guess"? he's not even sure of the details of his dream. Did he dream that she looked at the ground (in sorrow?) or did his mind add it later?
But once he heard Jackson was dead - BINGO!
Supposition piled on supposition.
Ignore any and all previous dreams where she may have been sad (because there was nothing to connect them to) or maybe even sadder, ignore the fact that it was simply a "sad face" and DECIDE that that's what it REALLY meant.
Right...

 

look fair enough....there is no way to prove no matter what is believed.
the reason I have an interest in part is the following:

One of the "logic driven" reasons for at least listening to the poster, from my perspective is that I beleive MJ was suffering from an acute form of fibromyalgia which in my lingo is a muscular condition brought on by heavy involvement in energy exchanges of a psychic nature...in psychic babble it is referred to as "tensing". [ where the sufferer tenses their muscles in an attempt to ward of psychic attack ot threat. 24 /7

So when the poster posted his dream it came as no real surprise to find that MJ had a "dream lover" in fact he probably had many including the other celeb, that passed away just before he did FF. In fact it could be speculated that it was FF passing that precipitated MJ's heart attack. [ two hearts beating as one, and one heart dies sort of thing...]

It also accounts for his sometimes bizare behaviour and charges of pedophilia which may or may not have any reality to them except as a dream lover morals are not monitored as they are in the real world but he would have sustained incredible attacks psychically for being involved in psychic pedophilia. Thus the tensing of the musculature and then onto fibromyalgia.

One of the reasons why this is evident to me is that I have been involved on a few occassions in the past, in helping those afflicted with Fibromyalgia as apart from heavy painkillers there is not much the medical profession can offer.

As I mentioned earlier this is only a logical assessment based on various other observations and experiences...So I already accepted the possibility that MJ had dream lovers by the ton and I have already done preliminaries on the FF and MJ connection.

But there are other more profound reasons for me to believe the posters story that I can not go into.

 

Except that there's no evidence of "energy exchanges of a psychic nature" or that they are possible.

Or evidence that such a thing as a "dream lover" exists or is possible.

FF?

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Of course not: internal personal fantasies are not monitored because they can't be.

No he wouldn't, "psychic attacks" are a fantasy.

Logic?
There's no evidence of logic in the above.

 

eh! what ever....who do you think FF was or is?

 

boy! you have no idea...just how monitored they are....
and you think the internet gets busy....ha

 

Have you had comunicaton wit extraterestials.???

 

I didn't mean monitored in a conscious sense but in a deep subconscious sense, the sort of sense that helps form first impressions about things and people etc etc...