Any aliens out there?

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by John J. Bannan, Jun 27, 2007.

  1. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,938
    maybe they are so advanced they dont use radio any more or, making sure we will remain unaware of them.
     
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  3. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    999
    Out of the 154 stars in our local group there are 7,453 bodies planets and moons, approching a size range as small as 1Km to 10Km in size.


    Alpha Centauri A
    Periodic Chart: 150 atoms KR-1 thru KR-150, Heavist atom KR-150 AMU 526.7
    Planets 11
    Moons 139
    Star weight 4.8 X 10^34 tons
    Suns weight 1.16 X 10^30 tons
    Planetary bodies 2.094398212 X10^28 tons
    Gene index 22,500
    Combine Gene index:73,441 (not including Proxcimas Gene Index influence)

    The largest Planet in orbiting Alpha Centauri A is a gas planet with a diameter of 94,600 miles it has 15 moons (3 major moons)

    Planet diameter 94,600 miles
    Moons
    1.) 5,346.7 miles in diameter
    2.) 4,812.03 miles
    3.) 4,330.827 miles
    4.) 302.19 miles
    5.) 271.97 miles
    6.) 244.77 miles
    7.) 17.07 miles
    8.) 15.37 miles
    9.) 13.83 miles
    10.) 0.9 miles
    11.) 0.868 miles
    12.) 0.7816 miles
    There are five main planes of orbit for the bodie. and boides of orbits may exist which are captured orbiting bodies.

    Alpha Centauri A has 47 more Atoms in its periodic chart that earths solar system.

    The largest body in the Aplha Centauri A system has orbiting bodies that larger than Mars. prospects for alien life.

    DwayneD.L.Rabon
     
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  5. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    it's prett much proven that no planet with a larger mass then saturn is orbitting either star... that only leaves more room for terrestrial planets, the article also predict 3-4 (terrestrial) planets per star that seems likely
    http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=1292
     
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  7. Ganymede Valued Senior Member

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    It would take over 100,000 light Years to fly from one end of the Milky way to the next. The size of our own Galaxy is so montrous that 1000 is being conservative. According to Seti, they postulate that there's 2400. Think about it, we have over 30,000,000 species of insects in the Amazon alone!
     
  8. glenn239 Registered Senior Member

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    I wouldn’t agree either ambition or self-preservation are things any race would edit out of their genetic coding – sitting around on your home planet with your head in the sand is not a survival strategy if the galaxy is the jungle this planetary jungle suggests it will be. Colonization might be difficult, but a sufficiently advanced race should be able to send entirely automated construction systems to new stars, to prepare the way for those that only follow later.

    Or that the equipment we use isn’t good enough to detect their signal strength.
     
  9. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    3,429
    intiligent life?
    Does the quistion realy matter, if they are there then the've never showed any atempt for contact and if they aren't there then it yust makes things easier.
     
  10. halo07guy Registered Senior Member

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    400
    Actually, there is proof that intelligent life exists. Look around you. Look at what we have managed to create. Given that the Universe is infinite, and that Earth is unimaginably small compared to it, I wouldn't be surprised if there were millions of types of life out there. I mean, because the Universe is infinite, that gives everything an infinite number of chances to happen. Which means that somewhere, right now, a star is exploding, or two planets are colliding. They say truth is stranger then fiction. Nothing makes that more true then the Universe. The chances of another planet like Earth happening make it assured that it wil it happen.

    And ganymede, Lightyears are a measure of distance, not time.
     
  11. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    999
    Well the assignement of any large planet is based on the age of the Solar system, if you define that thier is no large gaseous planets you are saying that the Solar system is one that is old. From a gaseous to terrestial planet system would account for about 380,000 to 550,000 years.

    Alphha Centauri A looks to have 7 orbits for planets with resect to the stars motion, and 5 orbits under the influence of Alpha Centauri B (beta). it also appeared that elements up to just about titainum where fluid our gas, making the condition of terristal planets one in which titianum and above atom where the composite of terrestial matieral. large planets ranged from lithium to nitrogen.
    The Alpha Centauri A system had as well 13,115 coments. where each planet probally has a grouping of 23 moons or more, some of which may be shared it seems, but several planets them selves may behave has mini solar systems the specifics i have not looked at.

    If you assign that the alpha system has not large gas bodies, that planet formation is near nothing, the resulting bodies for alpha Centauri would be large mini moons about 550 miles in diameter, in 23 orbits. with a minium orbit seperation of 40,000 miles.

    In this assement proxcima centauri has not been included, the Alpha Centauri System is atmoic stable, so many isopotes are stable. and elements appear to be inert. The effects of Beta Centauri and Proxcima Centauri actually increase the ablity of planet formation within the Alpha Centauri A Solar System, so clearly a declaration of no planets with a greater size than Saturn defines alpha Centauri as being older than our solar system.

    Well at any rate the serch was for alien life, and there are only seven stars of 157 local stars that carry that ablity to produce more advanced life that earth, it seems that you have ruled out Altair and Alpha Centauri, would you like to look at one of the remaining five stars. I think you mentioned Delta Pavonis
    Delta Pavonis (Single Star)
    Periodic Chart: 145 atoms BR-1 thru BR-145, Heavist atom BR-145 AMU 291.3
    Planets 10
    Moons 135
    Star weight 4.6 X 10^34 tons
    Suns weight 1.115 X 10^30 tons
    Planetary bodies 2.007 X10^28 tons
    Gene index 21,184

    Well From the gene index we can see that Delta Pavonis is ony little more capable of producing advance that our solar system.

    What say you about Delta Pavonis, Orcot

    DwayneD.L.Rabon
     
  12. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    3,429
    DwayneD.L.Rabon how do you derive this information?:bugeye:

    and what's to say abouth delta pavonis, one of the few stars that is more massive then ours in the vecinity. It's luminosity has increased 60%sins it's formation t(6-7 billion years ago) therefore it's habitable zone may have shifted considerbly... all considering it's a interesting star that is old enough to have "developed" lifeforms.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Pavonis

    good candidates for lifze can be found ad this link
    with Beta Canum Venaticorum on top followed by
    HD 10307;HD 211415;18 Sco;51 Pegasus
     
  13. eburacum45 Valued Senior Member

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    1,297
    Delta Pavonis is probably at the end of its main sequence life, or already a subgiant; any formerly Earth-like planet in orbit around that star will probably have dried out by now and overheated to become a Venus-like hell-hole. Perhaps it would be worth colonising the star temporarily, but in a few tens of millions of years it could start becoming a red giant.

    Not a good long-term prospect.
     
  14. Klitwo Registered Member

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    It's probably pretty safe to say that so far our galaxy has proven to be a pretty 'quiet' place out there in terms of advanced alien produced radio signals.
     
  15. glenn239 Registered Senior Member

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    Other than the difference between our fates being in our own hands, or the survival of the race held hostage to the whim of an unknown quantity, it probably doesn’t matter.

    It’s pretty safe to say that the galaxy isn’t producing the signals of enormous power that we could detect. I seem to recall in an earlier discussion that if a Russian SA-10 Grumble search radar was sitting .001 light years away firing its radar at us, SETI couldn’t see it.
     
  16. Klitwo Registered Member

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    80
    Then it's pretty safe to say then so much for the benefits of our SETI program. So much for confirming intelligent alien life in nearby solar sytems.
     
  17. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    999
    Well Orcort, those stars are out of my range, I have not looked at any of those stars, to derive by calculation thier oreintation as a solar system, one harboring life.
    If you provide me some figures that you find sufficently accurate I should be able to define some conditons, perhaps a gene index that go along with the portrayed view that it is a good candiate for life.
    The gene index is the prime kinetic chemical motion, which defines the number of genes in range that generate a intelligent life, human are estimated to have 25,000 to 50,000 genes some preport 100,000 ect... .

    worms for instance have 19,000 estimated genes, Mustard weed has 25,000 genes, bacterium 3,200 genes

    Here is a note it appears that Alpha Centauri B (beta) has a planetary bodie with a diameter of 30,000 miles, the largest body forming in orbits
    of the star (beta)The beta planet would penitrate to a depth of about 350 miles of a planet simular to the size of the earth at a 11 AU. The Star Alpha centauri B (beta) would lift 1.44 X 10^19 tons or 466,200 cubic miles on a earth like planet at 25 AU. which given the orbit of beta from 11 to the average of 21 AU causes the planet to tilt on its axis, causing a season in betas approach on alpha, and another second season in its leave from alpha. the effect of beta is approximatly 10 times that of the worlds oceans, so it is enough to cause a earth size planet to tilt about 115 (230?) degrees

    I derive my information by calculation, including the use of reference material. I have assorted the closest stars in our local group by use of the RECONS Program (Reseach Consortium on Nearby Stars) DR. Todd J Henry. and as well the use of the Human genome project of the U.S. Department of Energy Genome Programs.

    DwayneD.L.Rabon
     
  18. Star_Kindler Registered Member

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    25
    Um, I somehow made THREE posts. I can't delete em, so I'll get rid of the content.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2007
  19. Star_Kindler Registered Member

    Messages:
    25
    Um, I somehow made THREE posts. I can't delete em, so I'll get rid of the content.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2007
  20. Star_Kindler Registered Member

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    25
    You sir, have made a mistake in astronomy that is akin to the seven deadly sins. Alpha Centauri B is NEVER called Beta Centauri. If you must shorten it, call it aCen B.

    Now, to other mistakes that are more forgivable, but still horrible.

    The laws of physics are the same EVERYWHERE. Therefore, there are only 90 stable elements, with a few other less stable but normal elements and several more that are artificial only.

    The properties of these elements are also the same. A world with gaseous titanium is a world that is hotter than hell (1,649 C). I think it's safe to say that such worlds would have nearly every element exist in a gaseous form. No life there.

    Next, no planets can be orbiting aCen B at 11+ AU. aCen A would destroy most of them, or capture them at a smaller orbit around itself. Any unaffected by it would be properly considered as orbiting the pair of them, not just one.

    Stars have NOTHING to do with axial tilt. If Sol made our axial tilt, the north pole would be in constant daylight, Antarctica in constant night. Days would be as hot as July ALWAYS and nights cold as January. Not conducive for life.

    Your gene indexes are nothing more than BS. You can't view chemical processes that take a microscope to observe on Earth with a telescope.

    The presence of gas giants have nothing to do with the ages of stars. We've found some orbiting pulsars, and those babies are old.

    Finally, the RECONS Program, Todd J Henry, and the Human Genome Project provide you with very little of the information you claim to have accumulated. I must therefore assume that you've somehow deluded yourself into believing your mathematical processes.
     
  21. Klitwo Registered Member

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    80
    All of this so-called intellectual discussion about the possibility of intelligent alien life existing on habital planets in other nearby solar systems is overwhelming, especially for an advanced Neanderthal. Where's my spear?
     
  22. DwayneD.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    999
    True I do may own math, references do not provide the entriety it seems on any subject.

    Well if you declare that my gene idex is fictional, i have to assume that you have no proccess of chemical reaction with a solar system, other than the atom itself, meaning that the chemicals that you assume create life or even inaminate ojects have no order other than the electron rate of exchange. for futhur reference earth chemistry in not independant of the events in our solar system of galaxy (local group).
    As for the age of stars i assume that the age of a star could get quite long but in general the age of a stars solar system of planets is less than 2,990,000 years, and that gaseous planets last in life before becoming terristal ojects about 360,000 to 560,000 years.
    The conditions of pulars are not in our local group of stars.

    It seems that in your assement of effects of a star on another body star have no effect ?? please exsplain. I did not inculde the effects that alpha Centauri A would have on a earht like body at 11 AU. but the effects of Alpha Centauri B, which would cause a tilt in the motion of a body held by alpha Centauri A being the size of a earth planetary body. The axis tilt mentioned is that of a body at 11AU free of the effects of Alpha centauri A:
    to include the effects of Alpha Centauri A such a planet would role over about half that of the stated 115 to 230 degrees, say 60 degrees in end it would take 44 years for the planet to tilt 60 degreess, creating two season of 44 years based on the orbital time of Alpha Centauri B.
    The planet mentioned that could be held by Alpha Centauri B in orbit the one of 30,000 miles in diameter, would have little orbital motion effect of the earth size planet at 11AU but would result in chemical reactions at least to a depth of 350 miles.
    Alpha Centauri Beta is in a eccentric orbit with Alpha Centauri A because it is just over the mass of that which can be held in a stationary orbit, Its plane of orbit is very high probally near polar, where the other orbital bodies of alpha Centauri A are more equatorial, lower than polar orbit, Sol as you say i belive is in the opposite polar orbit as well Proxcima Centauri.

    Since the law of physics are everywhere where is it defined that only 90 atomic elements exist ion the galaxy or univerese. this does not even seem remotly possible to me, if you mean that all atoms exist in some isoptic form in the galaxy as a condtion of atomic formation in different stars i might agree, but it seems to me that maybe a condtion,even so some stars have little more that nitrogen as a compostion for the solar system such as Epsilon B and Epsilon Indi C; The highest atom for Epsilson B was Carbon and Boron/ for Epsilon Indi C the highest atom was lithium and berlylium which seems to me to be a nessacary componet of most planetary bodies in the minium, so for such bodies as those of epsilon indi b,c only gaseous bodies would exist, even at the size of terretial size bodies.

    I guess it best to say that alpha Centauri B (beta) would move a earth size body about 60 ft out of orbit, so at the maxium closeness of alpha Centarui B the planet would be moving 60 Feet per second out of the the stationary orbit under the effects of alpha Centauri, this velocity would decrease every day for 44 years after the maxium approach.

    Neither saturn or jupiter destroy the earth

    DwayneD.L.Rabon
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2007
  23. Star_Kindler Registered Member

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    25
    Can I see this math?

    You can SAY that there's this element or that element in a star, but you can't say more than that. There's not likely to be life in stars, so we have to rule out your gene index.

    Um, no... Earth is 4,600,000,000 years old, as is everything else orbiting the sun (except captured bodies, of course). Well in excess of your three million years.

    Irrelevant. Laws of physics are the same everywhere.

    Neither star would not cause a tilt on any planets. The planets that have stable orbits would not be affected by the gravity of the other star. Planets that could be affected by the stars would be pulled into farther out orbits, not rotated in affect to the star.

    There can't be planets at 11 AU. That's where Alpha Centauri A is at closest. I'm not even sure what you mean by the rest. Is English a second language for you?

    It's impossible to say. Sol is not in orbit in relation to Alpha Centauri, however.

    It is POSSIBLE, in fact it's true. We've never detected any elements besides the 90 natural ones in relation to normal stars. Certain other elements exist in small quantities, but no element higher than Plutonium has ever been found naturally as far as I know. Therefore, the highest atom for Epsilon Indi C is likely to be Uranium, not Beryllium.

    It would either have long ago pulled it out of orbit and set it to orbiting both stars or would not affect the orbit at all.

    No, they don't. That's because their orbits never get near us. But at closest, aCen A and B are 11 AU from each other, so no planets can exist in that area.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2007

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