alternative spanking methods.

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by NMSquirrel, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    Basically, Orleander is trying to explain to us that emotional abuse is better than physical abuse. And since she claims the following "There's nothing wrong with a child learning to be ashamed of what they have done. "
    I'll counter it with the following: " There is nothing wrong with a child learning the pain for what they've done."

    Yes, that's exactly what it amounts to. Anyone here, who claims that physical violence is worse than emotional obviously has no clue. You can't see emotional abuse, like bruises or broken bones, but it's there, and it's the worst form of disciplining your children you could use.
    And now, I'll enjoy using the anti-spanking troupe's vocabulary.

    "You are emotionally assaulting your children. You are an assailant. You are an abuser, because you are screwing with your kids emotions. Abuser."
     
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  3. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    and that's fine if you think that. I just disagree. Same as you disagreeing that spanking is assault.

    But I don't stoop to the childish level of calling you names and throwing a temper tantrum do I? :shrug:
     
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  5. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    No, you just put spanking on the same level as abuse and assault, and therefore you're calling anyone who agrees with using spanking as an alternative disciplining method an abuser and an assailant, and you even made implications that they should be put into jail.

    I didn't call you names. Whoops, you thought that the part in italics at the end of my post was directed at you? I see - you felt concerned. Makes me wonder why.

    Nobody is throwing a temper tantrum, nor being childish. The only ones here who were being childish were those who were so badly trying to redefine words, and made others look like atrocious parents with the usage of words such as "abuse", "assault", or changed words from spanking into hitting and beating, etc.
    And I was just so kind enough to hold a mirror in front of you, and it's more than obvious that it does bother you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
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  7. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I never said you did. And really? The italics words weren't directed at me.

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    LOL, if you say so.

    And as far as I know assault is illegal. But considering all the people who have used this form of punishment have only done it lightly on a padded diaper once or twice in their child's entire lifetime, I don't see that there is an issue for them to get defensive about, is there? :shrug:
     
  8. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Assault bothers me? Of course it does.
     
  9. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    Sure there is when stupid ppl like you call it ASSAULT and try to make parents feel guilty for ABUSING their children. If someone is beating or hitting their child regularly, by all means use those words.
    The members who voiced their opinions clearly are NOT ABUSERS and love their children very much.

    You are doing more damage to your kids, then all us occasional spanker's put together.
     
  10. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    As far as I know tyrannising your children on an emotional basis is also a form of abuse, and therefore illegal, too.

    Therefore you're bothering yourself, yes?

    Tell me, Orleander. Do you also sometimes pretend that you're just vacuum cleaning your kids' rooms, all while actually trying to sneak a peek of their stuff? Do you have the need to control? Are you one of these people who insist on having their way in all interactions with others? Do you wish to set the agenda and decide what it is others will do and when they will do it?
     
  11. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    so again, this is about me? Not about alternative spanking methods?
     
  12. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    No, it's about your alternative spanking methods. :m:
     
  13. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    so you are questioning me about vacuuming? You are wondering if I set agendas and have the need to control all interactions with others?

    How are those alternative spanking methods? :shrug:
     
  14. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting.
    See, I believe it is the job of a parent to help prepare a child for the world. A parent should, in my view, help the child to grow and mature as a person and when they leave the home, be ready to face the world, have an idea what to expect and have the tools to deal with life as an adult.

    You say your goal is to both teach and punish them.
    Let me ask you...
    If the child has genuinely learned his lesson... If he understands why what he did was wrong and genuinely will not do it again, what purpose does the punishment serve?
    I don't understand this.

    I have heard people say that they should be punished because they have to understand there are consequences for their actions.
    The consequences for their actions is what they are supposed to learn. When they move out, there will not be a parent sitting at their house waiting to punish them. If the consequences for their actions is punishment from Mom and Dad, then once they move out their actions HAVE NO consequences.
    Stealing from someone is not wrong because you get punished for it - stealing from someone is wrong because of what it does to the victim and what it does to you. If they don't understand that, they will continue to steal and just try to not get caught. If they DO understand that, I don't understand the point of the punishment.
    What purpose does it serve at that point?

    When I would send my nephew to his room, it was never for some pre-determined amount of time or with the goal of punishing him. He was to go to someplace with no games, distractions or rewards for being there and consider what he did and what the consequences of those actions were. When he could tell me that, he was allowed out again. Once I was convinced he learned his lesson the "punishment" was over, because that was the point. If the lesson was, "If you do bad things you will get in trouble" he didn't learn shit. The lesson was always, "The decisions you make have consequences. What were the consequences of this decision?"
     
  15. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    How are they not?
     
  16. Grim_Reaper I Am Death Destroyer of Worlds Registered Senior Member

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    Ok all Joking aside about the Gravel I am a very firm believer in you have to be afraid of something to have respect for it if you have no fear you will have little to no respect for anything. And some call no fear being brave and outgoing yes this is indeed true however would it be brave and out going to stick a bread knife or screw driver in the eletrical outlet? No that would be classed as stupid would it not so thinking of that now a child of 3 or 4 years old does that as they do not understand what it will do to them. Then the parents would be to blame correct. Now what if the parent said to this 3 or 4 year old child now Jenny Johnny what ever you should not play with a bread knife left on the table when it is discovered cause it could hurt you. In my experience this just peaks the childs I want to do this urge and then goes and get the object and then sticks it in the electrical outlet and then proceeds to die. Or when the parent discovers the child getting ahold of the object and then slaps the childs hand hard enough to make it sting and every other time after that does the exact same thing that child will think oh that hurts I dont like the hurt I will not do that. So back to the fear thing this child that is afraid of getting slapped now has a respect for the offending object and therefore will not touch it. Where the problem comes in is the ammount of force used I see nothing wrong with a consistent ammount of force being used to disapline a child as well as being consistent in the punishment that is the key.
     
  17. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    This isn't about one incident - it is aabout a parenting style. She uses emotional blackmail to guilt him into obeying. That is NOT a positive parenting style, in my opinion.
     
  18. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    oh how I wish I wish I wish I had the child that learned everything by just talking to them. But kids push boundaries and usually do it again. Sometimes they even do it again if there is a punishment.
     
  19. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    You are avoiding the question.

    You said your goal is BOTH punishment AND teaching.
    This implies that IF he did honestly learn his lesson, you would still punish him.
    What purpose does the punishment serve at that point?

    Of course they will do it again if there is a punishment. That's my point.
     
  20. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    ah, now I understand. My kids always got the talking to first. They never hit/bit again, so they have never gotten punished (that I can remember) for hitting. Same with swear words.

    They do get punished for the things they have done when they knew better. I'd have to say stealing would be a punishable offense. My kids know its wrong. They are taught its wrong. But just because they had never done it before doesn't mean they wouldn't be punished for doing it.

    When they were little they probably would get away with doing things because they didn't know better. They are both well past that age.
     
  21. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    Actually I don't think you do.

    For some reason the South Park song comes to mind.

    I wonder if they sing it about you at your Son's school.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhyTgp_o3do
     
  22. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    Orly, if you would drop the word "assault", I'm quite sure most of the "abuse" you detect in the responses to your post would disappear.

    Now you may not be concerned about this one way or the other, but people tend to take offense to being called "abusers". So whether or not you feel that they really are abusing their children, you are causing an immediate defensive reaction, because they feel attacked personally.

    If you're intent is to debate / discuss the relative merits of various methods of child rearing, maybe it would help to avoid referring to "spanking" (for example) as "abuse".

    You know where I stand on the issue, but perhaps spanking does constitute "abuse". None the less, calling someone out on it could be construed as an insult. Kind of like calling someone who regularly takes prescription pain medications a "junkie". Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but such pejoratives can only raise the level of tension amongst the members involved.

    In any event, within reason, what ever works for each individual family is the right answer. And, yes I had to throw the "within reason" in, or some stupid idiot would be asking "well, if sticking their hand in boiling water 'works' doesn't that justify it?" No, idiot, we try to assume (often wrongly) that you and others are capable of understanding our intent.

    As you may have noticed, clueluss is one that has really gotten on my nerves in this and the other thread, but you, even though you seem to overdo the "abuse" thing, at least you try to make logical points and show some wisdom.

    On the other hand, clueluss is a clueless troll with no other apparent objective than to antagonize members and derail threads. Even though the two of you may (or may not) be on the same side philosophically, at least you offer something. Clueluss just repeats endless criticism, backed up by nothing. To the point of literally repeating previous posts, because he has run out of new bullshit to say. And this is from someone who never even raised a child.

    On that subject, I think that a lot of childless people do have insightful comments to add, but once again, we have clueluss buzzing about, offering nothing substantive.

    At least that's my take on it...

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  23. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    I completely agree with this Rand. ^
     

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