AIDS denial is immoral

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by spuriousmonkey, Jan 2, 2007.

  1. Bells Staff Member

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    As far as I am concerned, you are free to believe in whatever you so choose. If you don't think HIV exists, then don't believe it. But some people do believe it does and if they have sex with you, don't you think you should owe them the courtesy of wearing a condom? After all, if you don't think HIV exists, you pretty much have nothing to fear. But others do and others do think HIV is real and unprotected sex is a means by which it spreads.

    If you feel that wearing a condom is a disrespect for your personal freedoms, then don't have sex, because condoms also prevent the spread of STD's (unless you think they're false as well), and they prevent pregnancies from occuring.
     
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  3. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Telling me not to have sex is also disrespectful to my personal freedoms. So is using totally bogus science to excuse that.
     
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  5. qwerty mob Deicidal Registered Senior Member

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    "Blow me"
     
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  7. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    A person who makes these "requests" to me or any other human should at best be treated as a probably disreputable type of salesperson. More likely, he or she should be treated as a carpetbagger and run out of town on a rail, tarred, feathered, and filled with disgusting substances the nature of which I would rather not discuss.

    The paradigm that you so vigorously defend, in the absence of firm evidence that it even exists in reality, is so disgusting and abhorrent that humanity should take firm measures to excise it from their midst. Your kind has had about 25 years to show more than babble and verbal abuse to support your claims, and you have totally failed to do this. The fact that you have talked to me the way that you have proves that in 25 years AIDS supporters have only become worse and have not found a way to make a good scientific case.

    Some AIDS supporters even lie about the use of force and claim that it is a lie when people report that the police were used to enforce a doctor's orders to stop breastfeeding and to feed their children the poison, AZT.

    What part of "I've had it with your nonsense" do you fail to understand?
     
  8. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Qwerty, they've been telling me without being explicit that they simply don't feel like they have to prove anything and it doesn't matter how badly the clinical trials were done. They're smarter than God and reality and that's how I'm supposed to take it according to them. Do you ever ponder just how offensive that is, how soul-sucking a kind of attack this is on me personally and on humanity in general? Even now, a few good people could turn this Earthly situation around, but people like Bells WANT to be in the way of that, to profit either from enjoying the view, or from gathering the money, or from being one of those who just monkeys with things and gets off from the disturbance that she causes. People like that don't even make good animals because animals that are that unplugged from reality don't survive.
     
  9. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    So, later, I'm at the pool hall and Sauna comes up and he's like "aaahhh" and I'm like "yeah, whatever!"
     
  10. Bells Staff Member

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    22,817
    Calm down Meta.

    All I said was that you should use a condom regardless of your stance on HIV/AIDS. Safe sex practices should be used at all times whatever your stance on AIDS happens to be. I did not ask you to sacrifice your first born in the name of the AIDS gods.

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    And what exactly is "my kind"? So far I have said that I find your stance to be immoral, which ties in to what this particular thread is about. You on the other hand have been abusive, rude and down right insulting. You have also advocated that I should somehow have violent and disgusting acts done to me because I believe that HIV exists and I am an advocator of safe sex. You say that people who believe HIV exists have been abusive and rude? So far in the last few pages you have not only been both abusive and rude, but also shown yourself to be a believer in violent action against those who oppose you and your stance, all because I asked you a couple of questions about what you have said.

    You have more than opened my eyes to your ideals, ideology and to what kind of person you happen to be.
     
  11. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Oh, that's "all" you said? I've "opened your eyes"? You're every bit as phony as I thought you were and in some way you are a very active participant in the continued degradation of this world. Do you think that I am an idiot who doesn't remember just a little while ago in this thread when you started insulting me first?
     
  12. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    This is so thoroughly disgusting.
     
  13. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    You want to babble about immorality? Here's your immorality:

    This is how you would like to treat me, Bells, and so would your buddy the Monkey. Just lock out the dissenting opinion and say bad things about people because somehow you get something out of AIDS, even if it is just the personal satisfaction of feeling that somehow you are right and the other person is wrong, something that people will kill for.

    The NIH has given careers to liars and taken careers away from people like Duesberg who tell the truth. You wouldn't happen to work for them, would you?
     
  14. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Celia Farber: "Moral zeal rather than scientific skepticism defines the field"
     
  15. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Your "morality" requires that I give up something that I enjoy just because you might be right, and you know what, you're not good enough for that. The whole AIDS establishment is not good enough for that, because the moment that anyone expressed any doubts about their hypothesis, they started calling him dirty names, denied him funding, screwed him around on his job, and they proved that they were just the kind of dismal persons that no one should take any direction from.

    "Just in case"? FORGET IT. I've seen how low your standards are for believing what you want to believe, and how far you would try to make critics go and still not gain any mileage with you, and this is because you simply do not WANT to believe anything other than "HIV causes AIDS and kills all its victims and it's because someone had sex and I didn't say that they could do it that way." It's your version of requiring that every living being ask your kind permission before having a LIFE.
     
  16. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    5,502
    http://www.harpers.org/OutOfControl.html

    This is the definition of "AIDS" in Africa.
     
  17. Bells Staff Member

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    Lets see. I said you were immoral (again I find denial of a disease that has killed millions world wide to be immoral), I think I commented that you were whining like a little girl, I have said that your whole stance was dangerous and that you fell in line with other AIDS denialists who were sadly in a position of power and as a result, millions have died, I also suggested you wear a foil hat to stop any mind probes when you did the "them" argument and how "they" were out to get you.

    You on the other hand have been rude and abusive, as well as suggesting that I should have violent and disgusting acts committed against me. Hmm lets compare now. I call your stance immoral and you say that I should be tar, feathered and be filled with disgusting substances you cannot even name or mention. You also likened me to being worse than an animal. Charming really.

    I say you should be an advocate of safe sex regardless of your stance on AIDS, you react as though I have slaughtered your family.

    Ermm ok. So how exactly has my saying that you should use a condom be somehow a moral argument in you giving up something you enjoy? The only way to be safe from STD's is to either use a condom or abstain from sex.. and that's aside from any HIV or AIDS risk that might be an issue.

    I have not called you dirty names (you on the other hand suggested that I should have violent acts done to my person and have referred to me as being somehow worse than an animal), nor have I denied you anything at all.

    If you mean Duesberg, he knew the risk of the controversy he would cause. He took it willingly and knowingly. To make claims that AIDS is not contagious is in my opinion dangerous. Is he out of a job?

    Well his website has an offer to make donations and the address is University of California Berkeley, so he either has tenure or is somehow employed. He is currently employed as a Professor of Molecular Biology at the University of California (Berkeley) and from his biography, has hardly been without employment even after his claims were made public.Link

    As for funding. As I said before he knew the risk and not every researcher or scientists gets funding to test their hypothesis. After his theories and claims were disproven with research, his continual refusal to accept the research done to prove him wrong has been his downfall and in my opinion shows a high degree of arrogance on his part. The questions he posed have been answered time and time again. There is nothing wrong with denying something Meta. But one should also not discount evidence to the contrary solely out of pride and arrogance. I looked at what he proposed and I also looked at the research since then which have proven that he was wrong. If you wish to believe him then so be it.
     
  18. Oniw17 ascetic, sage, diogenes, bum? Valued Senior Member

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    Bells and anyone else:
    Please stop replying and let the topic die out.
     
  19. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Bells, you may be beginning to understand how I feel about the way that you talk to me and about me.
     
  20. Athelwulf Rest in peace Kurt... Registered Senior Member

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    Agreed.

    Furthermore, I suggest we all add MetaKron and Sauna to our respective ignore lists. That way, we're not bothered by their bullshit, and they'll learn to stop.
     
  21. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    5,502
    Also, Bells, I said that people who do like you do might need to be treated a certain way. Now, if you want to play the game of taking that personally, I might want to play the game that when you say my stance is immoral, you advocate my receiving 100 lashes with a cane for being immoral because that's the punishment in some parts of the world. I did suggest that you should be treated as a disreputable type of salesperson, and that treatment definitely seems to be appropriate in your case. If I didn't already know something about the execrably bad education that is to be had in many parts of America, I would think that you could not possibly be so badly trained as to be making the kinds of replies that you do unawares. People are trained as a habit these days, as if it is valid science, to twist things up the way I see you doing just in message #568.

    Duesberg is not the one denying things out of pride and arrogance. He has the right information. The people who deny his case are very arrogant, although the pride part may not be there. Their denials also usually take the form that "he's a psychopath" and "he will kill millions" without any information to support that denial. The arrogance part is like the way that you seem to say that you don't have to provide any support for your statements. This is the kind of thing that is done by swindlers.
     
  22. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Considering the fact that you never say anything of substance, it won't be a loss if you do it.
     
  23. MetaKron Registered Senior Member

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    Bells, if you had anything like the substance it should take, you simply wouldn't be talking the way that you do. I can tell a lot from your speech patterns. I can also tell a lot from the way that you expect to be nasty to me and get away with it while it's a capital crime for me to say anything that offends you. You also pretend to feel threatened when there is no threat, and once again, that makes me wonder about your honesty.
     

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