After rape memory pill question

tiassa:

Oh, I agree 100%. I also think that I ought to be able to leave my house unlocked, without the fear of being robbed. I should be able to walk down any dark alley, without the fear of being mugged and left bleeding in the gutter.

However, we don't live in a perfect world, and we need to take precautions in order to reduce the risk of disaster occuring. Hence, I don't feel one is 'condoning' rape if they merely examine behaviourisms or physical attributes which may make a woman more likely to be targeted for rape.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Fraggle:

So if underage girls don't complain when they willingly have sex with their male teacher, statutory rape hasn't occurred? If the underage girl enjoys the sexual intercourse, then it is no longer statutory rape?

"Let her guard down"? "HE'LL do all the work"? You're essentially saying that the male is always the sexual predator, even when he happens to be a naive 13 year old.

I find your sexism and misandry mind boggling. Don't presume to project your inadequacies as a human being on the rest of the male gender. It's not appreciated.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

I think such examination is necessary if we are ever to solve the larger part of the riddle. Nature dictates that there will always be rapes, but a good number of them are, from the cold and logical perspective, accidents of ideology. We must change, generally, as a species, the way in which we view sexual behavior. Some of this will even have the appearance of reducing the survivor's experience, but in the end, it doesn't have to destroy people and it doesn't generally have to happen at all.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Sex and sexual behavior is a part of humanity, a large part. Objectification and proud display of our sexual adventures has been always part of human history and numenclature. People have been raping people for eons, there are many different types of rape; marital, subliminal, statutory, blackmail, you name it. The only best thing to do is to be safe. There is no advice better than that.

 

Pedophilia is about the children, not exactly what they wear. What body does a child have to be exposed? Does a child have matured sex organs or provocative curvatures? A good analogy to teasing or objectified women are children that are not well protected. If for example a parent or guardian leaves a child in a mall alone for too long, that's simialr to a woman emphasizing her sexuality. However, a child dressing provocatively or teasing an adult isn't helping either. Just so I am clear, Are you comparing women to children? Should we start blaming the women's parents? Why don't we blame the rapist's parents also?

 

If you can say that, then I can say rape is about another person having sex forced upon them against their will, not exactly what they wear.

But those are the very traits that a pedophile would be interested in, right? If you are going to say that a rapist can be turned on by a woman and what they wear, what makes you think a pedophile can't be when it comes to a child? And if that is the case, just as it is not the fault of a child that a pedophile likes what he sees and acts upon that, nor is it the woman's fault that she is attacked by the rapist. Rape is against someone's will, period. As we've discussed numerous times in this thread, people are turned on by different things, just not bare skin. The crime here is when that is acted on, the crime is not in what a person wears.

I'm sorry, but I really don't get what you are driving at. A woman emphasizing her sexuality does not give anyone a right to rape her.

When I asked the question about what a child wears, I wasn't even implying that the child was "teasing" an adult. Not by any means, since we had both agreed that many people are turned on by various things (bikini, sweats, head to toe attire, blue clothing, red clothing, gloves, bare feet etc) For example, wearing shorts, no matter what the age of a person, does not give anyone a right to violate them.

We are talking about rape. It is never right, no matter the age of a person. Just so I can make myself a bit more clear, the problem that I am having is you putting blame on a woman for being raped just because of what she wears. Yet, when it comes to a child that is exempt. What about a guy, is it his fault that he is raped because he has his shirt off at a beach? What about an elderly person, they are raped too, is it their fault because of the clothing they are wearing? Remember, there are many people that are in this world that are "turned on" by different things.

 

I totally missed these questions above-

Why don't be put the blame where it belongs, on the very person that
committed the crime, the rapist himself.

 

I think that most people on this thread have been doing exactly that. How have you missed it?

However, there are some of us that also consider extenuating circumstances to also play a part in the rape ...which you seem to ignore completely.

As has been said about a thousand times so far in this thread, why do we lock our doors at night? Why do we NOT walk around in the "ghetto-side" of town with money hanging out of our pockets? .... These are things that we do to help, HELP, protect ourselves from criminal actions.

If you leave your doors unlocked and open, a person who takes your valuables is still a thief, has still commited a crime. But does that relieve you completely of any culpability?

Baron Max

 

I think it does, and that's probably where you an I differ. I think it's sensible for women to take reasonable precautions to minimise the possibility of being attacked but I don't think it's fair to blame the victim when it happens. People aren't perfect, they make mistakes and forget things, but a crime is still a crime, even if you forget to lock your car door or make the 'mistake' of walking home alone at night. In any case I think this is mostly academic - most people do lock their car doors and most women do take care to avoid walking home alone at night. But I don't think it's fair to blame women for making these 'mistakes', especially when most men can make them with impunity. If a man gets beat up on his way home from the pub would anyone seriously consider blaming him for daring to walk home alone? It just doesn't happen, and the double-standard is telling.

 

Oh, wow, I don't know where you live, but in the Dallas area, if a man is assaulted in that way, there are many, many people who will ask/wonder what the stupid fucker was doing out drinking, getting drunk and walking around in the dark!

I, nor most here, are blaming the women. They've only cited mitigating circumstances of the rape ...not the least of which is going "...out drinking, getting drunk and walking around in the dark!"

If I were a woman, I'd carry a loaded semi-auto 9mm pistol and I'd have it in my hand inside my purse at all times. I'd also carry a 105mm howitzer strapped to my hip, in addition to a K-bar assault knife and several fragmentation grenades.

Why don't women wear chainmail panties with padlocking devices?

Baron Max

 

Um, for much the same reason that men don't wear similar ones with the padlock at the back. It would just be too uncomfortable.

 

he is putting part of the blame on the victim, due to what they wear, instead of solely on the person who committed the rape.

No, I haven't ignored it. As I keep trying to point out that various rapists can rape a person for a number of different reasons (and not necessarily sexual), just not because of clothing- which has been the assumption of some of you here.

If you want to keep this to a "sexual/clothing being the fault" discussion, then as was also pointed out, different rapists may have various different fetishes, which may not be bare skin at all. Some might be turned on by sweat suits, blonde hair, blue eyes, bare feet etc... Are you suggesting that a person can safeguard themselves against every single thing that "might turn on" a rapist?

I'd like to know, do you think if a man has his shirt off at the beach, that it is his fault that a bunch of guys gang up on him and rape him? If a rapist happens to be "turned on" by what an elderly person wears, is she to blame as well?

 

Having your shirt or clothing off on the beach is a little normal. Having your clothing semi-off in the middle of the large public elsewhere is not. You have to understand that the public domain is for everybody, we try to keep things safe and wholesome for everybody. Dressing inappropriately not only draws attention but violates other people's privacy and sends the wrong message to little innocent children. There is no reason why women have to show their half boob in public, many women don't dress provocatively and still get plenty of attention and dates. Objectification of women is the number one cause of rape in any country, and as long as women continue to reinstate this factor by dressing exposed, its not helping either. No, you can't solely blame the rapist, just because its not a crime to dress like you are about to have sex with everybody doesn't mean its not violating other people's interest on decency. If men dress with one testacle clearly showing, and laden with pheromone colognes, all of that rubish, it would clearly look like the man wants to have sex with everybody. Dressing inappropriately sends a clear message, whether you are a man or a women, and this message is deciphered differently by different people.

 

I've always felt this way about the rich. I mean there they are conspicuously consuming, driving those cars, wearing those watches and on public roads, no less and in public places like restaurants. No you can't just blame the people who steal from them. Hell, even Manson was not entirely to blame for his escapades.

I think if you steal from someone who is rich, you should go to jail, but the rich person should spend a % of your sentence in prison also. We could come up with an algorithm based on how much of your income and capital you display.

Guys who wear shirts that show their muscles, should expect to get their asses kicked occasionally. Adn they are partly to blame for their own whupping.

Guys wearing tight jeans that show their asses are partly to blame for being forcibly sodomized.

Any woman with lipstick that makes her lips full and red is partly to blame for being forced to give a blow job.

We are all attrative nuisances. And given that humans are naturally competetive and aggressive. And display of skill at all is actually a call to be killed. John Lennon for example.

In fact the greater the skill or talent displayed the greater the responsibility one has when other people try to violently take you down.

Anyone with a good singing voice is asking to be punched in the neck.

It's strange, when I see a women dressed up and sexy, I figure she is trying to impress her friends, feel good about herself and maybe make the right guy ASK HER OUT ON A DATE.

I never on any level got the impression she wanted me to drag her in the bushes and fuck her, now.

Clothing is not WHATEVER CONTRACT YOU THINK IT IS.

If you think someone is a tease, that could make you angry. You could express the anger. If the only way you know how to express anger is to rape, that is completely and wholly your problem.

(my fear is that given some of the ludicrous things already posted in this thread, some people will think I am not using satire in the beginning of this post. Even worse, some may agree with what is meant as satire.)

 

YES, you can soley blame the rapist. What don't you understand? Despite what people wear, say, look like, or do, it is ultimately the rapist's choice to commit the act. That blame is solely with the rapist. No one is forcing them to rape.

"many women don't dress provocatively and still get plenty of attention and dates"

Yeah, and many of those same women are raped all over the world.

"just because its not a crime to dress like you are about to have sex with everybody doesn't mean its not violating other people's interest on decency"

Yes. You then, have the choice to remove yourself from the situation if someone's dress is offending you. Someone who is being raped does not have that luxury. That is why rape is different. You are forcibly taking something from someone and leaving them no option to say no.

"If men dress with one testacle clearly showing, and laden with pheromone colognes, all of that rubish, it would clearly look like the man wants to have sex with everybody."

Just because it looks like someone wants to have sex does NOT mean it is okay to force someone to commit the act. If you go to a stripclub, knowing that people will be half-naked or naked, it is okay to rape them? No.

"Dressing inappropriately sends a clear message, whether you are a man or a women, and this message is deciphered differently by different people"

A clear message to whom? As many people have already pointed out, there is no universal "I want to have sex" message that makes it okay to rape. You even say it yourself, "this message is deciphered differently", so the message really isn't that clear at all, is it? I invite you to conduct your own personal experiment; gather a bunch of men, women and children, cover them in horse-blankets head to toe, and then lock them in some where with a couple rapists. Do you really think everybody will come out unscathed? Your answer should be no. A persons dress might be an excuse for a rapist, but when it comes down to it, the rapist will still rape no matter what the person is wearing. That is why clothing is not a factor in determining who is to blame for a rape incident. The rapist chose, of their own free will, to commit the act, and is then solely to blame. Not the girl who wears the provocative dress, or the man who wears tight jeans, or the child who wore a bathing suit in her front yard for the rapists of the world to see.

 

Solely because of the objectification of women, which some women can't even understand or fail to understand. And women who dress like whores are simply saying "yes, I support the degredation and objectification of women"

Human beings are still basically animals, and sex is a very primal part of our mammalian psyche. In the animal kingdom, a female specie that displays her scent or body is likely in heat, and will more than likely mate with a male. Sexual display is a universal language, stop trying to pretend its not.

I agree, but many strippers do get raped and abused, its all part of that particular society. Yes, it doesn't mean one should force themself on others, but like I said, sexuality lays in the primitive part of the human brain. For example, before you get an erection, you need a stimulant, you can't decide to get an erection by yourself. You can't command an erection to happen, and neither can you command a woman's vigina to fascilitate, both of these actions are beyond the common and basic human control. This is why boys and girls often find themselves in embarassing positions sometimes, if you know what I mean. Plus, you have to remember that biologicaly, the sole reason why all specie exist is to reprocreate.
When some men look at these women, their mammalian brain sees free reprocreation, while their social identity may see a little differently. The same for women who see a strapping man with plenty of security.

Like I said, a womans common dress code is not actually the reason for most rape, but the objectification of women, and women are embrassing this notion by deliberately exposing themself in the final intention to manipulate men or women. Its just Feburary and I saw some chick on my campus wearing this mini sport shorts that barely covered her vital areas. Its still a little chilli outside so I wonder why anyone would wear that right now. But some women have to always be sexy, God forbid they are caught dead not being sexy. These women, usually young and dumb, think that the epitome of feminism is to be sexy, they rationalize that to get a guy is to be sexy. I know a barely 5 year old that dances like a stripper, of cause she doesn't know what she is doing, but she is only playing her cards in a society that objectifies women. The bottom line is this, some women think they are naturally sexier than men, so they are automatically exempt from all the rules of nature, including exposure. They think they can cut their cake and have it at the same time, you guys think the laws don't perttain to you. I have news for you, get a grip. Yes, you are sexier than guys, but that doesn't mean you are exempt to the rules of nature. You said people should look away in public if they feel violated by too much exposure, easy for you to say. How would you feel if men had testacles and penis clearly protruding, and if men had barely there shirt. Do you think you will still hold your "look away" position?

 

my last contribution to this waste of time thread.

 

Thank GOD and all that is holy and unholy! Maybe instead of "wasting" your time here ranting about women who dress like "whores" you should start another thread where you can continue this rant with people who share your opinions and ideas of why rapists are not at fault. You seem to have a serious problem with women, buddy, especially the way women dress. Here is an idea; Wake up and realize that no matter how angry you are at women, nothing you say will ever make a rapist less at fault for a rape. Nothing. End of f*ing story.

 

LOL why is it that women always bring out the "you hate women" card whenever you even try to be a little logical. Its the funniest and cutest thing ever. Listen, I am probably any woman's best friend, I like women, I have nothing against them wearing what they want. I watch porn with women. But why do you always bring up the "you hate women" card. If judging fairly and analyzing rationaly is enough for me to hate women these days, then I'm sorry there's nothing I can do for you. Don't worry, I guess the rapist who mistreats women...truely likes women.

 

jessie,
I'm sorry if I touched a nerve, I'm really not interested in that, but I'll just shut up now and forget about the whole topic. You make very good points, don't get me wrong.