Affirmative action should be abolished.

Why oh why do people assume, because I criticise a post written by someone who seems to be a black supremacist, that automatically makes me a white supremacist?

Good grief.

I don't care about this so called concept of 'race'. There are infinite possible genetic combinations, and infinitely more possible nurture combinations, and partitioning the world into 'black' and 'white' or even 'black', 'Asian', 'white', 'Aborigine', 'Native American' etc is an immense simplification that tells you almost nothing useful.

The South African Apartheid government assumed race existed, and ended up dividing people based up on whether a pencil stuck in their hair fell out or not. Someone with curly hair was assumed to be 'black'. Are there people that still believe this is somehow scientifically viable?

If so, may the Flying Spaghetti Monster have mercy on us all.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

I don't know what you mean by balance, and nature is man made, we invented the word nature, we discovered the natural laws, and some of us keep discovering new laws every day. Moores Law, or the Law of Cause and Effect, if we only were to pay attention to these laws perhaps we'd understand where we are headed.

You like to say the word nature, but you also know that race is just a word, it really has no meaning unless people give it meaning, so ask yourself why people were so angry, and so hateful as to create the word "nigger" in the first place. Ask yourself why these words like "cracker" were invented. The law of cause and effect, people do have emotions, and some people are more emotional than rational, so if you say something to them they might respond with an even more vulgar insult, until there is a dialog of insults. This is a form of emotional communication that some people have, but you don't have to take part in it by using these words, or by communicating in this way, or by believing in the ideology. If you arent a hater, focus on loving yourself. Love is part of nature too.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

I know you aren't a white surpremist. I did not even start a thread on race, but I guess anytime you use the words affirmative action, it attracts racialists. Black racists and White racists and Asian racists, it does not matter because if you aren't a racist then you know they see the world in the same way, they have a form of unity here. It's not like all of us can understand it, but thats just how some people see things, they see the world as a place divided racially, in such a way, like a game of chinese checkers, where each race has to win or something. It's a very competitive way of thinking, and it has some good cultural benefits, because usually people who are racist are also the most motivated. The problem is, it never ends, it's an endless competition, it goes on forever, man against man, man against woman, the battle of the sexes, of the races, of nations, of class, of religion, of the educated vs uneducated, ugly vs pretty, you see it never ends. Humans are busy thinking up as many ways to divide each other as possible.

Perhaps thats what we should focus on? Maybe we should just make a thread to see if we can list all the different ways man is divided from herself?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

The problem, I think, is that they don't have to "think up ways", it's all perfectly natural in the same ways as the other animals of the world. We just like to try to pretend that we're above all of that ....which all of the evidence proves that we ain't!

None of us have that long to live, TimeTraveler! We'd still be adding to it thousands of years from now ...perhaps millions!

Baron Max

 

Yeah that is exactly why our species won't last another thousand years, it's simple, we are too flawed. It would be nice if we could last another thousand years, but that can only happen if we want to, and most people arent even trying to.

 

Please don't make assumptions of things that you don't know or can't prove. Dogs and cats DO exhibit many of the same reactions as rascist during their encounters. What you might be talking about is when two different dogs are raised together, in the same home, by the same people. But that's different, ain't it?

And just the same ...if we lose our instincts, we may not survive. I'll also say that it's possible that our instincts are what makes each of us different ...if we remove instinct, what do we become???

Well, I might disagree with that. Perhaps we ARE trying, but as a distinct group or clan or race or.....? In other words, like the Muslim Extremists ...aren't they, perhaps, trying to save themselves for the next thousand years? Note that it's ONLY themselves, not "we", as in all humans?

Baron Max





I think we have moved beyond the natural level of balance. Dogs don't have any concept of race, neither do cats. We take it to a whole new level, to the point where the species itself cannot handle it's instincts. If our instincts control us, we wont last long.



Yeah that is exactly why our species won't last another thousand years, it's simple, we are too flawed. It would be nice if we could last another thousand years, but that can only happen if we want to, and most people arent even trying to.[/QUOTE]

 

Better for whom? And who makes that determination? and what if others don't agree?

See? That was the point I tried to make about the terrorist ....they're not interested in "we, the human race", they're ONLY interested in those who feel and think the same way as themselves.

Well, sure, why not? If, say, they all separated on different, isolated continents or areas, they could all maybe survive completely separately as different "races".

Just look at, say, the deer and wolf population. They can survive together, but there is constant, never-ending war, right? But if you move the deer to one area, and the wolves to another, then the deer might survive, but the wolves won't have anything to eat! And the wolves die, but the deer survive.

Humans really ain't so different to the other animals if you examine them carefully and with an open mind. But you have to let go of your ego, your ego-centricism. The Muslim terrorists are the wolves, the liberal doo-gooders are the deer. Now tell me how those two can survive together? And who is gonna' win that race for survival?

Baron Max

 

Baron you made some good points, you made me think.

Perhaps racism as an instinct is one of those required instincts channeled in the wrong way, like greed. How can racism be chaneled in a way which actually improves quality of life for our species? Do we really need an outside threat? Do we need aliens to invade or a non human predator to unite us?

It would be sad as hell, if we were attacked by a non-human threat, by aliens, or a new species, and we just continued to fight ourselves while the real threat kills us. I know humans can be ignorant but I hope we recognize at least that someday we might actually need each other. When that day comes will we recognize it?

 

At this rate, the wolves, but if the wolves win, what then? Does it ever end? Tell me how we can avoid going extinct, or hunting ourselves out of existance.

 

Wrong way according to whom?

But AARP had an article a year or so ago about a study ...people were shown pictures of other people, and their reactions measured by electrodes. Everyone, including blacks, exhibited fear at the pictures of blacks, but DID NOT show the fear reaction when shown white men, japanese, chinese, or any other race. Pure instinct? Maybe. But it may also be our social conditioning ...ie., "...all blacks are gansters"?

Well, as I said earlier, I think that YOU are thinking "species", while the natural human tendency is to think "my own race/group/clan". See? We, as humans, don't necessarily think in those broad terms of "human race", we think in terms of much, much smaller groups.

Yeah, I actually think so. War, for example, seems to draw us together ...or it did during World War II, when there weren't so many liberal doo-gooders and philosophical know-it-alls. Americans of all kinds came together to fight a common enemy.

Well, again I think you're thinking it too broad a term. Most humans now think that they need each other, but it's more like blacks need blacks, whites need whites, Muslims need Muslims, Christians need Christians, ......but few actually think in broad terms of ALL HUMANS ...regardless of what they might say!

Anyone can "say or claim" anything, but do they really feel that way or is it "the thing" to say? Who wants to stand up and say something like, "I'm white, and I only like white people!"? Or ditto for blacks? Social conditioning has taught us that we shouldn't say such things ...even if it's exactly how we feel.

By the way, I also think that the social/governmental tendency to "force" us all together is doing more harm than good. Whenever a human is "forced" into something, his natural instinct is to resist.

Baron Max

 

TT, I sure wish you'd learn to use the quote function! Just hit the "reply" button in the upper right corner, then you can edit the person's quote and make lots more sense.

I was not making a comparison, only giving you an example of the "living together in harmony" bullshit!

Then how can you explain that humans are at war/conflicts all over this planet all the time? and how can you explain that it's been going on in the same way since man stood upright on the African plains?

No, they won't! They didn't in the times before man came along, in particularly in the early American times. The deer are not defenseless, you know, and in reality, only the weaker deer are taken by the wolves. But if the wolves grow in ever-increasing numbers, they'll kill more and more deer. The deer can't survive under constant attack by hungry wolves.

Maybe we can't avoid it. But then did the dinosaurs think the same thing during their reign on the Earth? Why are you thinking that we're anything except another species of animal? If we go extinct, if we all kill ourselves off, it ain't no big deal ...no bigger than when the dinos lost it. Just another day in the park, huh?

Baron Max

 

I agree, I never said we should force people together. I'm just saying, there are people who might want the freedom to date whoever they want and love whoever they want. I don't see why we need to force people either way.

What have you to say about the media? The media in a way, actually influences the human mind more than anything else, the only reason people are less instinctively racist now is because the media has moved to the internet and other sources and now people know that the gangster black image is not true, and that not all women are sex objects, but honestly, all of us were taught to think like this. So I don't hold any grudge against someone who thinks like this now.

And yeah I know about other species of animals and creatures that have gone extinct. Why do you seem to think this is good? It's not that I think it will matter on the cosmic level, but why should we as humans waste our chance?

Sure, we will come back again in another form, as life is a cosmic force, but why do we hate the human form so much that we are destroying it? It actually is the best form on earth right now, and it will take thousands of millions of years before another species reaches this point, and it would be stupid if that species goes extinct in the same way, honestly if we can make it into space we should be trying harder to survive.

 

Well, as I see it, they already have those freedoms, don't they?

But lest you forget, we also have the freedom to tease them, shame them, talk about them, point up their differences, write nasty commentary about their mixed union, tease their mixed children,......... See? Freedom goes both ways ...and both think it's the "correct" way.

I think the media is a big factor, but not the only factor, for sure. Our basic character is learned at a very early age, and that's from the parents and the friends of the parents. Racist parents are likely to raise racist kids.

I also think that hiding behind the ideals of PC is going to do major damage to the race issue ...even more than bringing it out into the open. And tv and media advance that PC crap and probably make racists even more angry.

I've always said, and I'll say it again, ....unless we face up to the facts about race and racism, we ain't never gonna' make it go away. In fact, NOT facing the facts is doing great harm already.

I sure wish you'd learn how to quote and edit in your responses!

Baron Max

 

This is why I think you're wrong.

http://home.att.net/~bob.wallace/mixing-blood.html

- snip -

The theory --actually it's a myth -- is that if everyone in the world interbred, we'd all end up with no race, and everyone the same light brown color. This isn't what would happen. What would happen is that people would arrange themselves into a hierarchy, with the lightest at the top and the darkest at the bottom, just as is done today in every country in the world.

For good or bad, light skin is preferred nearly everywhere. Even in Mexico, which most everyone thinks is nothing but metizos, the upper classes (who are white Spanish) have been breeding themselves lighter and lighter.

One of the most surprising things I ever saw was when I turned on some South American Spanish-speaking TV stations and saw myself looking at a bunch of white people, many of whom had blond hair. I thought I would be looking at a bunch of Antonio Banderas. Hardly. In most cases, I couldn't tell the difference between them and Americans.

- snip -

 

I'm not happy with our companies firing whites and hiring foreigners to replace them. Just a question, if race doesn't exist, how is it that forensic scientists can use the blood at crime scenes to tell the race of criminals?

 

Actually the biggest predictor of how well an employee will perform is their IQ score which of course the government has made illegal for companies to test potential employees. The idea that businesses can't tell how well potential job applicants will perform until hired and actually work the job is so ridiculous I'm not even going to say anything.

 

I don't want people to hide behind PC. People who hide are worse than the outspoken racists. I respect outspoken racists. The cowardly racists I cannot respect. If someone is going to be racist they should be proud of what they are, or stop being racist. If they feel ashamed or guilty about it, then maybe they should stop being it. I can respect a racist, if they are an honest racist. I do not like dishonesty, and someone who hides their true self, from everyone, all the time, including their friends, is simply a false person.


The facts are that there is an instinct among humans which likely promotes it. All the rest is spin. Discrimination has both genetic and learned basis, in that the hatred involved is genetic, but the expression (racism), is learned. I don't think we will ever solve racism, because we need a reason to express hatred and racism provides that reason.

Discrimination in my opinion is good, just not the racial kind. Everyone discriminates, just some of us get caught up in the racial type of discrimination while others discriminate on character. It's one thing to be a racist and be a good person, and recognize other races as human, and recognize that other races have good people in them. It's another to simply say
"if you are ugly on the outside, you must be ugly on the inside" and judge character that way. And it's another thing entirely to be like "I hate everyone who looks different from me", so there are a lot of different types of racists. I have no problem with a racist if the racist is a good person trapped in what I'd consider a flawed worldview.

 

IQ cannot tell you how someone will perform. Lots of lazy people have high IQ's. Lots of jerks have high IQ's. Lots of hard workers have low IQ's. So the IQ is a silly way. I think an employer should test his or her employees CONSTANTLY, and not do it in a way in which the employee even knows they are being tested. This means no recognizeable test, but yes you test them by giving them difficult problems and seeing how they solve them. You can learn all you need to know just by seeing how they solve a difficult problem and how they handle pressure. An IQ test can never act as a true test because it's taken on paper. Instead give a person a huge responsibility, or at least let them think it's huge. Finally, you have to always test the size of their ego, if they cannot view themselves through the eyes of the corporation, their ego just wont be big enough to put the corporation before themselves.

The main key to success in the workplace is putting the corporation first. The same with the country, put the country first. The same with the family, put the family first. The ability to put something before yourself is a better test of character than any IQ test.
If businesses had a for sure way to know how a person would perform don't you think curruption in the workplace would be 0%? Don't you think 100% of all corporations would be profitable? Just hire everyone accepted into MENSA as CEO and you'll go profitable? If only it were that simple.

Show me a URL? I've never heard of race being specified by blood type. I think you are bullshitting, but if you can show me a URL I'll believe it. I know you can judge race by hair type, but once again hair is appearance, it's one of the external idenfiers. I know you can judge race by skin type, but this too is external. If you show me it can be found by blood type then you'll have discovered something. I've never heard of racialized blood before in my life, in fact I was under the impression that blood could be removed from one person and transfused into another person. Are you trying to say blood types are different among the races now?

Okay, you have a legit point. You can make the point that light skin looks better, and I will not deny that this may be accurate. It may be true that humans prefer lighter skin, but this is not because the people under that skin are better people, this is about what looks pleasing to the eye. So you can say that a lot of people think say, Paris Hilton is hot, and I will not deny that, it seems to be true. It seems to be that people do prefer the look of blondes with pale skin and blue eyes.

However, is this reason enough for us to believe that that having lighter skin automatically makes you a better person? That's the real question that people ask. The beauty trends, these things change, but the lighter skin trend is partially due to the media, the same reason people like thin women now even though throughout their cultural history they liked big women. In Asia, people are having eye surgery, taking skin lightening pills, and dying their hair blonde, and they are free to do this, but to an intellectual person this would not make them more beautiful, it would make them less beautiful. Michael Jackson did this too, he bleached his skin, has surgery after surgery, permed his hair, and now he looks less beautiful, if you ask a woman now how he looks, women think he looks gross, but there was a time when he had white women passing out and fainting because of his beauty, this is when he had dark skin.

I think there are some who can see beauty no matter what skin it's under, and then some who just think, if you have light skin you are a better person. If you have light skin, you have more of a soul, or you are more human. I just think some people, they happen to meet the most beautiful person of their life, and that person is not blonde, and does not have the palest or lightest skin.

 

I didn't say IQ would predict job performance 100%. I said it was the biggest single predictor of job performance. Obviously some employees with lower IQ are better than others with higher IQ.

As for determining race by DNA

http://dna-view.com/race.htm

"Sometimes it would be useful to know the race of a stain donor. Any DNA typing provides some evidence, provided that population data of fragment sizes for the races in question is available. Quantitative estimates are given of how good that evidence is likely to be, and ideas discussed for the best calculations to extract the evidence. As a rough conclusion, distinguishing Caucasian from African-American source can usually be done confidently. Distinguishing Caucasian from Hispanic is more problematic."

As for interbreeding, I didn't say anything about the "beauty" of white skin, I said the societies like Brazil and Mexico and even the Middle East, the "whitest" people usually are the elite in that society.

Someone else mentioned that animals aren't "racist" or have races. I'm not an expert, but different species of animals are in effect the races of animals. There are hundreds of types of hummingbirds, but they will not interbreed with each other.

As well,

http://www.separatism.org/

The diversity mongers like to tell us race isn’t real, but it is real to most people on a common-sense level, and to many scholars who study the subject on a scientific level. For example, sociobiologists tell us race is very real among animals, although they prefer the term subspecies to race. They tell us subspecies of mammals, for example, seldom occupy the same space without conflict.