Snake, God Himself, me, and all of the church people in the whole world put together could not possibly compare to your holier than thou hypocritical judgement. When ironically, it's your lack of humility that keeps you so idiotic.
You have it backwards. "If I won't become pregnant, then I will have sex and enjoy it" -- this is how you think a woman thinks, or better, SHOULD think. Sex, and the willingness to abort, is propagated by the media as the acceptable price of a man's love. Girls and young women are facing a great burden. Not yet having developed personalities and a sense of their own will and rights, they will buy into whatever they get told. But it is *them* who pays the price, not the media. There goes the pattern: 1. You must have a boyfriend, or you are a freak and a loser. 2. In order to keep the boyfriend, you must have sex with him, or he will leave you. 3. If you fall pregnant, be ready to abort because you can't afford a child; also, your boyfriend will most likely leave you if you decide to keep the child. 4. Accept it that your body is intrinsically flawed; it *should* not conceive, but it does. It is you and you alone who must make up for this flaw. Stretched, would you like to be a woman, and thus facing such things? Would you like to be a 17-year old girl with such a mindset, and seeing no other option? Being "normal" comes above every other concern. Having a boyfriend or being married is still, by many people, considered as the standard of normalcy. No matter what the cost. * * * Those are actually side issues. The main one is that some people wish that abortion were treated as yet another regular contraceptive method. Meaning that men would be completely absolved from any responsibility whatsoever. The more such a view of abortion is encouraged, the more women are viewed as having intrinsically flawed bodies (since they can conceive, which, in the context of sex for pleasure, is a bad thing). The more women will hate themselves for it. And we get one half of the world's population hating themselves for what they are. Potentially one half of the world's population being self-hating, or mindless and indifferent creatures with a slit between their legs. How many women do you know who are proud and happy of being female and able to conceive and bear children?
I hear what you are saying water. It`s a sad reflection on society. And parenting. But it will fundamentally be about choices.
Of course it is about choices. But it takes a lot of good parenting, or a lot of bad experiences, to realize it is about choices. So many people get stuck in their teenage mind, full of frustrations and unresolved conflicts. And then they pass it on to their children and everyone whom they affect in any way. I find it immature to expect from a teenager to make a conscious, responsible choice about their sexuality. Surely, they may *appear* responsible, but upon further inspection, you'll see that they are just repeating a certain pattern they haven't thought through themselves.
* I agree, and yes I think it is unrealistic to expect teenagers to make mature or informed choices. But lets say there is an unwanted pregnancy. How does this same lack of experience in the university of life impact on the "abortion or not" choice? Many woman who had abortions as youngsters have to deal with a lot of regret and guilt later on in life. Where does one point this finger? Does one even have to point a finger?
Is a zygote a human being? Yes. It has a complete set of human genes, and it is alive, so it is human. There is no difference between a zygote and an single-cell ameba or a follicle of hair. Does a zygote deserve to have all the rights of an adult human being, including the right not to be killed deliberately? Only if we offer the same rights to a single-cell ameba and the follicle of hair. As well, there are two separate entities occupying a single body during pregnancy, both cannot have equal rights.
How many women do you know who are proud and happy of being female and able to conceive and bear children? All of them, what's your point?
What do you mean? From whose perspective are you viewing the matter? We'd have to ask them why. I know some, but they refuse to talk about it. They just go silent and say something to the effect of "Such is life". Men, on the other hand, like to say that women are "just being hysterical and neurotic" about abortion, when it is just a piece of meat being cut out. But it is really stupid to complain about abortions: If sex is so great, then why not pay that price for it?! Or? Why would there have to be any pointing of fingers? The issue is only, is that same course of action that lead to the unwanted pregnancy something to stay on and repeat, or not? But that it is only women who have to pay the price of sex for pleasure should make you think about it. Think what you would think and feel like, if you were a woman, and knew that you cannot afford a child, but would engage in sex? You'd have to make peace in your mind that abortion is okay, and that you will have it if you conceive. Contraceptives are a gamble after all; about one half of all pregnancies occur in women who were using some kind of contraceptives. I suppose if you teach people that sex for pleasure is okay, then you also have to teach women that abortion is okay. Otherwise, you are just a hypocrite, telling only one part of the story.
I don't know one woman, not even one, who would be proud and happy to be female and be able to conceive and bear children. Some of them are very negative about it, and consider it a curse. Most of them have very mixed emotions about it. My point is that many women don't feel comfortable about being able to conceive. It is a source of ongoing fear, and often misery.
I don't know one woman, not even one, who would be proud and happy to be female and be able to conceive and bear children. My point is that many women don't feel comfortable about being able to conceive. It is a source of ongoing fear, and often misery. That has probably more to do with the religious, backwards country in which you live. I've been there and wouldn't want to be female either. Sheesh! Your Minister of Education tried to ban teaching evolution from schools.
I'm sorry, where was the hypocricy? You made an unfounded assertion that non-believers are the ones condoning abortion while condemning the christian god. I told you I do not condone abortion and pointed out how on the revers you come across as hypocritical by using an example. You can't even manage that - you just sling some brainless tripe at me without putting a moments thought into it. I can understand the bitterness, but at least put some effort into it. I'm being called idiotic by some delusional little girl who believes a cloud is going to fulfill her desire to bonk a rock star, (like every teens fantasy), and who's own parents think she has a brain tumour? Ehehe.
Scientifically, there is no difference betwixt you and I and our zygote forms aside from our level of development. Or an ameba, or a follicle of hair. There is no right to murder given to parents or to anyone. How many single-celled living creatures have you murdered? Under your notion of poverty being an excuse for abortion, Abraham Lincoln would probably never have been born. One could say the same about mass-murderers, serial killers, dictators, etc.
No. Also, most of the women I spoke to were atheists. Girls who believed they must have sex, or their boyfriend will leave them -- and there is nothing worse than being alone. If abortion is the price to pay for being with someone -- so be it.
Such is real life. The price of a man's love is the woman's willingness to have abortions. Or face being single and unloved.
I speak 4 languages fluently, bits of a few more, and am to learn more. By nationality, I am Slovene. Slovenia is a wonderfully Western country with all the Western values adopted.
this statement makes no sense at all. you are doing a lot of generalizing and a lot of assuming. just because you perceive things this way doesnt mean they are that way. as far as my experience goes, one of the travesties of the abortion debate in the United States is that the opinion of men who would potentially be one half of the decision making apparatus of a would-be abortion is completely disregarded by the feminists and liberal women campaigning for greater control over their own bodies. I think the problem isnt that men dont want the responsibility of getting a woman pregnant (although some may indeed want that), its that womean want to free themselves from what they see as a harsh consequence of being a woman and not being able to live as freely as they want to in a culture prizing independence and freedom of action. some may see the right to abort as a symbol of being able to slip out from under the yoke of patriarchal control, and choose whether or not to be pregnant and alter the course of their lives in that significant way. its much less a matter of viewing womens bodies as flawed because they can conceive (which i dont agree with at all) and more of a matter of convenience for women who view themselves as in control of their own destiny. freedom to abort furthers the cause of personal control over one's body and environment, it doesnt make someone less independent. i dont buy your theory that abortion is bad because of societal brainwashing. i think there wasn't anything wrong with it until the church came along and made it a sin to do anything pleasurable (like have consequence free sex in even a safe and responsible manner). sex as viewed through the lens of christianity is a filthy act and if not done out of necessity, begets consequences that the church fathers are all to eager to point to as repercussions of leading a life out of the path to god. well thats some serious brainwashing. abortion has been around as long if not longer than religion. do you really think its going away any time soon?
Yes. How many women enjoy having abortions? If abortion is a RIGHT, why aren't women all cheerful and glad about, massively running into abortion clinics? True. But the thing is that sex has been socially postulated as the condition for romantic love. Of course. But at what cost. If you were a woman and have had several abortions, you'd think differently. No. Well, some Christian churches may espouse such a view, esp. the totalitarian patriarchal ones. But not Christianity as a whole. The question is whether is should be regarded as "yet another regular contraceptive method". Think you were a woman, and your boyfriend would tell you "... so what if you get pregnant? You can always have an abortion. But I really want to have sex now. ... I can always go somewhere else. It's your choice." Propagating abortion as a "free choice" has the side effect of women being extorted for sex. (See Kenny's example.) It also encourages irresponsible behaviour in women themselves, taking their bodies and their health very lightly.
