Aboriginal child abuse and the NT Intervention

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by S.A.M., Dec 2, 2010.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You mean you can't find any. Surprising isn't it, how all the page long rants don't substitute for evidence?
     
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  3. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    On the off chance she is being in anyway sincere the main indicator being used is life expectancy and that will take more than 3 years just to evaluate. Does it suprise you that there ARE key performance indicators in this?
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    There are other social indicators which are of shorter duration

    e.g.

    rate of unemployment : can be assessed within one year of job creation

    malnutrition in young children: developmental milestones are reached between six months to two years in children under 7 and within 3 years in children under 10 [except for height if bone length is permanently affected and mental acuity if neurological development is permanently affected]

    psychological indicators of wellness, these are generic follow up tests conducted on abused children to assess their healing; there are also physical tests undertaken if the children have suffered physical abuse.

    poverty: three years is sufficient time to determine, IMO, if the trend is moving towards self reliance and away from welfare, but maybe we could suspend that for the period of a decade.

    other indicators are educational progress [enrollment/attendance/rate of pass/fail], suicide rates, teenage pregnancies, alcoholism, substance abuse rates, mental health indicators and yes life expectancy.

    Most government interventions require either annual reports of follow up for budgetary considerations [this is my experience with stuff like government grants and working in government run health centers] or at least some plan of follow up and progress checks to ensure the smooth flow of money from/into various departments

    So what is the information available on the progress of the NT intervention
     
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  7. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    Surprising, isn't it, how easy it is to ignore the realities of a difficult situation and just quote stats?

    Everything you've been told, everything you should know if you actually cared... and all you want is evidence that a western government failed to accomplish something it set out to do. Gives you pleasure, doesn't it.

    You're a pitiful creature, SAM.
     
  8. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    However. Seeing as you asked so nicely.
    Guess which racial group currently has the highest rate of population increase in the NT?

    Go on. Guess.
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Let me guess, which population groups worldwide have the highest rate of population increase

    a. those at war
    b. those under occupation
    c. those under oppressive regimes
    d. those who are least educated
    e. those who have the lowest life expectancies
    f. those with the poorest socio-economic indices
    g. all of the above

    so, which door should I open milord?
     
  10. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    That's strange. Copts in Egypt fit into at least two of those categories, but they don't experience any population increase.

    I wonder why that would be.
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Good point, think hard why they don't have higher birth rates like all those oppressed peoples
     
  12. Gremmie "Happiness is a warm gun" Valued Senior Member

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    Because they can afford cable TV..

    Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

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  13. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Let's have a clear answer from you, instead. Then I can laugh at it.
     
  14. Bells Staff Member

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    Traditional Aboriginal society did not amount to rooting anything that moved, even if it is still in a nappy.

    Children didn't have sex. Now they do. So why do they? Why is a 7 year old girl inserting plastic things into her vagina in class? Is that normal behaviour? No. It is not. Not by any stretch of the imagination. And it is not shocking because our parents concealed sex from us as children.

    Have you actually read the report?

    Imitation is normal. But what they are imitating is not normal for children their age. Children that young aren't normally sexually active and don't normally have sexual contact with adults. Nor are they normally exposed to pornography repeatedly as their parents watch it.

    This is the argument you are going with?

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    You really need to read that report.

    The issue with education is that no one wants to be educated. No one cares. They state, clearly in the report, that their problems stem from a cultural clash and attempts to assimilate by the young peope is what they blame in part for the troubles in their community. Kids watching porn at home and then bonking each other is, to Elders, what whites do and these children are being told to use contraception when they go to health clinics instead of being directed to the old traditional ways of no sex before marriage. The report is litered with reports from Elders about sexual promiscuity in children and teenagers in the report and how to combat it their way.. which does not match our way. So what do we do? Do we stop giving their young contraception? Or do we respect their autonomy and do as they ask us to do?

    You can't have it both ways Sam. That is what we've been trying to tell you.

    Don't you get it yet?

    Many of them don't want to be in transiton. They want to retain the old ways with zero interference or contact or services.

    The children want their iphones, sex on tap and alcohol and spray paint to sniff. So what do we do? We ban the alcohol, we're bad. We force the children to go to school.. we're bad.

    Again, complex issue which can't be broken down with an excuse of 'transition'.

    Social taboo?

    10 year olds were selling their bodies to adult men for sex and money - that is not exploration of one's body. Yet, if police tries to intervene, they are prevented by many in the community because it will cause trouble. So where's the balance?
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You know we have exactly all the same problems with Dalits as you have with the Aboriginals. I think your problems are exacerbated more because of the remoteness and also because of the persistence of separatedness between the aboriginals and non-aboriginals.

    Now I'll only be repeating myself [again] if I reiterate what I have said before. But I think you need to have a kind of Aboriginal task force which consists of educated aboriginals who the remote aboriginals can relate to and let them organise the education and development of the people. I'm not sure how that will be possible, the conditions are so bad already, but dalit educators in India have worked miracles with the dalit children and their model has been successful in motivating the children as well as their parents many of whom are illiterate bonded labourers with similar issues of alcoholism and domestic abuse.

    Maybe they could be sent to India for training - I don't know. But what is currently going on there, its not working.
     
  16. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    We had such a body. ATSIC - one of the most corrupt and inefficient bodies you can ever imagine. They did nothing at all except help select few communities while others were ignored. They were disbanded not that long ago.
     
  17. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    LOL, as if you had some credibility when it comes to demands for "content." :]
     
  18. Gustav Banned Banned

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    lets recap the contributions and tactics of anglo imperialists and their sympatizers in this thread...


    *read the report
    *google
    *fuck off
    *profanity
    *circle jerks
    *anatomically graphic accts of csa
    *hand wringing
    *shifting the blame
    *trolling
    *accusations of trolling
    *criticism dismissed as socialist propaganda
    *diversion of op

    ..vomited with gusto on to this thread in order to maintain the ongoing plunder and genocide of the aboriginal people and their land

    however due to the tireless efforts of aboriginal activists, sam, other members and orgs of the world community, the "race traitors" in australia, we have forced the racist and genocidal govt to the table

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    enter the special rapporteur

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  19. Gustav Banned Banned

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    yet, the racists on this board disingenuously maintain the pretext and justifications offered up by the genocidal australian govt for interventions as valid despite massive evidence to the contrary

    lets again, hear from the "communist", Alastair Bothwick Nicholson, about these bogus justifications that make the pretext for the nt intervention an utter sham

    Now last year we launched report, in fact in this room, by Prof Larissa Behrendt and others, which made it very clear that that consultation was not a consultation at all. It was a sham and it was a dishonest piece of spin and there is no doubt that that remains the case. The minister first of all said that the evidence that we had only related to four communities, but she didn’t produce any evidence of what happened in other communities. She then went on to say that there had been 500 consultations with individuals. No records were ever produced of what took place in those consultations or between whom. For all the value of that is concerned, they might as well have gone down the pub and asked a few people down there about what is happening and claimed that as consultation, or held a street poll. It really is not evidence of any consultation at all. Now the government has said in this legislation, this very legislation where it reintroduces the RDA that these are special measures for the Aboriginal people, that have been consented to by the Aboriginal people, so therefore they won’t offend the new legislation they will not offend the RDA when it is introduced. That to me is a piece of absolute dishonesty. ​

    the special rapporteur's take on these bogus "consultations"


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    further fucking more, where are the indictments?

    Aboriginal leaders have questioned the motives behind the NT intervention policy after the Australian Crime Commission (ACC) failed to find evidence of organised pedophile rings — a key motivation of the policy produced by then-Aboriginal affairs minister Mal Brough in 2007.

    The intervention imposed heavy restrictions on alcohol, welfare spending and pornography and was justified by alleged sexual abuse against children in remote Aboriginal communities.

    However, few if any charges have been laid against alleged pedophiles, and the ACC told the July 5 Sydney Morning Herald that there was no evidence to support the existence of organised pedophile groups.​
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2010
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Well its good to see that activism is alive and effective.
     
  21. Gustav Banned Banned

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    i have a very simple formula
    if you agree with me, you are for freedom and self determination
    if however you take issue with my pronouncements, you are for rape, dispossession and genocide

    really really simple

    /cackle
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    72,825
    I think most labels have lost their meanings and become essentially irrelevant. It would have pissed me off no end being called names four years ago, but now I just see it as an inability to face difficult issues when ad homs start replacing arguments. I just zoom in on the facts now, to see if any evidence has been presented. Everything else is just noise.
     
  23. Gustav Banned Banned

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    yup
    i just ignore the troll james now
    still tho, labels are eminently useful for the lulz
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2010

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