Abiogenesis is the Scientific God

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by IceAgeCivilizations, May 14, 2007.

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  1. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, I see. Was there some recent scientific discoveries indicating the earth is round and not the center of the solar system that changed your beliefs?
     
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  3. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

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    Now you are certainly trolling, utter desperation on your part, lame, lame, lame.
     
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  5. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    i believe they said something along the lines of "a multitude of small changes" is what caused swamp gas to turn into humans. it didn't happen in one fell swoop.
     
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  7. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    No it changed into single cells that could take energy form their environment and divide. - qite like the recent new discovery:

    A new order in the animal kingdom, in addition to the three standard division of animal life forms, is being suggested, based on a 20 cell organism, which does not fit into any of the three existing orders. It is not like 20 bacteria cells grouped together, because in bacteria case the number of cells is not fixed and some can be removed without killing the others. I.e. a cluster of bacteria is not a single living organism. (Bacteria do sometimes cluster, especially if water they are in is drying up.)

    In contrast, remove any of the 20 cells of Magnetoglobus and the entire organism dies. It was discovered in brackish lake Araruama near Rio de Janeiro nearly two decades ago and for last few years extensively studied successfully in Rio university acquarium. A picture of it is on the cover of recent or current issue of International Journal of Systematic and Evolutionary Microbiology, according to the science section of my news paper today.

    It makes internal to all 20 cells not one but two different magnetic crystals, (One is the same "magnitite" that many more advanced organisms use, including homing pigeons in the budges near their nose). The other Id not recognize so give it Portuguese name from news paper: "greigita." The 20 cells cooperate in several ways, chemical exchanges now being investigated. Probably some or all of the cells have specialized for slightly different tasks, although they all look alike, and they do mutually align these magnetic crystals. They have been reproduced thru several generations in the lab. Basically each of the 20 cells divides to make 40 and these 40 reorganize to make two of the same globular structure. The scientist have not yet well understood how or what it eats.

    The scientist can only speculate about how old it is. Perhaps very old, one of the first multi-cellular organism to form of perhaps it is a recently evolved new life form from accidental aggreagate of single cells. As far as is known it is only found in the lake Araruama near Rio so that, I think, tends to indicate recent repeat of an important step in evolution.

    Full summary of the cover making journal paper on page A12 of Folio de Sao Paulo (in Portuguese) 30May07
     
  8. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    If you do indeed hold a geology degree and have maintained an interest in the subject I am sure you are passably acquainted with the notion. [I'm equally sure you don't understand it, but there you are.]
     
  9. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

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    There you have it folks, life evolving from non life, so where are all the headlines?

    Perhaps you should take out a full page ad in the New York Times, I'm sure they'd gladly print it, and get Dan Rather to narrate your documentary, should be hot.
     
  10. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

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    Can you explain it to us, Ophi, in terms we can understand?
     
  11. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    More facts, in addition to the ice core records clearly showing summers following winters for >50,000 years, radio isotope dating, etc. - All showing Earth is much older than the Bible's 6000 years etc. - for IAC and others to ignore:
    No the swamp's organic compounds changed into single cells that could take energy from their environment and divide. - quite like the recent new discovery:

    A new order in the animal kingdom, in addition to the three standard division of animal life forms, is being suggested, based on a 20 cell organism, which does not fit into any of the three existing orders. It is not like 20 bacteria cells grouped together, because in bacteria case the number of cells is not fixed and some can be removed without killing the others. I.e. a cluster of bacteria is not a single living organism. (Bacteria do sometimes cluster, especially if water they are in is drying up.)

    In contrast, remove any of the 20 cells of Magnetoglobus and the entire organism dies. It was discovered in brackish lake Araruama near Rio de Janeiro nearly two decades ago and for last few years extensively studied successfully in Rio university acquarium. A picture of it is on the cover of recent or current issue of International Journal of Systematic and Evolutionary Microbiology, according to the science section of my news paper today.

    It makes internal to all 20 cells not one but two different magnetic crystals, (One is the same "magnitite" that many more advanced organisms use, including homing pigeons in the budges near their nose). The other I did not recognize (do not know the name in English) so I give its Portuguese name from newspaper: "greigita." The 20 cells cooperate in several ways, chemical exchanges now being investigated. Probably some or all of the cells have specialized for slightly different tasks, although they all look alike, and they do mutually align these magnetic crystals. They have been reproduced thru several generations in the lab. Basically each of the 20 cells divides to make 40 and these 40 reorganize to make two of the same globular structure. The scientist have not yet well understood how or what it eats.

    The scientist can only speculate about how old it is. Perhaps very old, one of the first multi-cellular organism to form OR perhaps it is a recently evolved new life form from accidental aggreagate of single cells. As far as is known it is only found in the lake Araruama near Rio so that, I think, tends to indicate it is a recent repeat of an important step in evolution.

    Full summary of the cover-making journal paper on page A12 of Folio de Sao Paulo (in Portuguese) 30May07
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2007
  12. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

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    Just got a post deleted saying you should run an ad in the NYT that non life changed into life, but I guess sarcasm is not not allowed here, oh well.
     
  13. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    "argument from incredulity" doesn't pass the smell test. I know for a fact that you believe all sorts of incredible, absurd things. Billy T's post didn't describe abiogenesis, but rather the evolution of multi-cellular organisms. Just like the church supressed Galileo's absurd observation that the Earth revolved around the sun, so are the fundamentalists trying to supress ideas like Darwinian evolution, because they find it inconvenient that mankind is part of the animal kingdom- the latest result of billions of years of evolution, not God's special caretakers of an Earth he made for us.
     
  14. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

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    We were talking about the first appearance of life on Earth, maybe Billy T was thinking he's on a different thread.
     
  15. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    You always mention the phrase goo to you. Well, Billy T is showing an example of an organism making the transition from single to multi-cellular life. From there to us is just a matter of degree.
     
  16. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Reference the 20 cells of new Magnetoglobus (See post 468) I had what may be original idea:

    The scientists studing this newly discovered life form, probably a separate new order in the animal kindom, have not yet found any function for the magnetic field it creates with natural magnetic crystals. Perhaps there is no function now, but it is a vestige of it's earlier evolution like the human appendix, etc. (many are known). I.e. the isolated cells from which it evolved "found" each other more efficiently via the mutual magnetic attraction.

    Does anyone know their solid geometry well enough to know if 20 spherical cells form a closed solid (or hollow ball, like the early stage human embryo) better than some other small number? If there is such a natural structure, that might explain both the previous utility of the now apparently useless magnets and the reason why the organism is always 20 cells.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2007
  17. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting. Some theories of abiogenesis postulate a mineral origin, but I have never heard of a magnetic one. Perhaps this is a vestage of an earlier form.
     
  18. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

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  19. andbna Registered Senior Member

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    We have already been through this; you have shown no proof that these theories should be considered absurd, besides that:
    What (Q) is getting at is a good analogy:
    In Galileo’s time it was absurd to believe the world was round, and that it was not the center of everything. Yet it was discovered that the world was indeed a sphere, and all did not revolve around it.
    The point? Absurdity has no impact on reality, and is not disproof of a theory.

    Now rather than the continual repetition of “that’s absurd” IAC, maybe you would like to advance your position with some evidence, or at the very least: a well formed argument.

    -Andrew
     
  20. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

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    The evidence for evolution is all around you, but not Darwinian evolution.
     
  21. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    There is no kind of evolution in biological systems that is not Darwinian.
     
  22. andbna Registered Senior Member

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    Darwins work is the cornerstone of the current evolutionary theory. What your saying is the equivelant of "I beleive in Quantum physics, just not in Einstiens work."
    -Andrew
     
  23. IceAgeCivilizations Banned Banned

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    No, Mendel's work is the cornerstone of scientific evolution, Darwin's notions have no factual support.
     
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