A world without Israel

Discussion in 'World Events' started by El_Diablo666, Dec 17, 2006.

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  1. Zephyr

    Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

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    Er ... Iran is Persian, albeit Persian under a rather controlling Islamic government. There are some Persian nationalists who want to kick out Islam and go back to Zoroastrianism (the original Persian religion), but I think most Persians are happy with Islam and just want a freer country.

    I think they'd also appreciate it if American presidents didn't lump them into the "axis of evil". That kind of thing just offends a lot of innocent people and lends support to populist government...
     
    Zephyr, Dec 17, 2006
    #81

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  3. El_Diablo666

    El_Diablo666 The New World Order Has Begun. Registered Senior Member

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    Just like I hate bush, EHMUD OLMERT (MORE THAN ANYONE), Israelis, etc., but not you cuz I don't hate people for no reason at all. I have not alot of Arab friends, but those that I met treated me nicely. Sure, the Israelis too, but the fact remains I didn't see much truth behind their words.


    Zephyr, every country must be documented to be a country. Taiwan and Somaliland are not countries because they are not recognized by other countries as being a country, and Australia was not recognized (when aboriginals were there) as a country by Britain, so it wasn't a country then.

    Two Israelis, I know its small, but both didn't seem very confident in themselves of what they were saying.
    The Lebanese did. The Syrians did, and that's why I think they are more trustable.
     
    El_Diablo666, Dec 17, 2006
    #82

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  5. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    You ask us to imagine this. Okay, but what are the rest of the myriad details? How did this "world without Israel" come to exist?

    Did the Arabs win the 1948 war? This is the only one that I was too young to follow and therefore the only one for which I would accept the hypothesis of a reasonable chance of an Arab victory without having to postulate some other major changes to reality. Israel was created precisely out of Europe's guilt over hundreds of years of the vilest persecution of Jews, culminating in the Holocaust. (A guilt America strangely shared, even though at its worst it was a paradise for Jewish folks by historical standards.) For the Arabs to finish the job Hitler started, only three years after most of us even became fully aware of the scope of that job, would not have sat well with the winners of WWII. Americans, the people who had firebombed Dresden and vaporized Hiroshima and Nagasaki--as a way of writing "We're bad, don't mess with us" large enough for God to read it--would have turned our wrath and our horrible weaponry against anyone who dared to mess with our new favorite foster child, Israel.

    Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt would be wastelands of nuclear ruin since the Manhattan Project was still in high gear to keep up with the Russians and there would be plenty of A-bombs or H-bombs to "purify" the Middle East. The surviving 75% (a guesstimate) of the world's Muslim population in Iran, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Africa and elsewhere would have witnessed a resumption of the Crusades. Once their countries achieved political, economic and military power they would have one goal: to bring down the Great Satan.

    The world would be different in detail from the way it is today, but not so much in principle. It would certainly not be a paradise.

    If Israel were destroyed today by a nuclear strike from Iran or Pakistan, the only countries who could pull it off, it would start WWIII and we'd be in considerably worse shape.

    If Israel were simply never created in the first place, that would imply a much different European history than the one my family remembers. Perhaps you can flesh out your storyline explaining the hypothetical relations between Jews and Christians in the centuries C.E.: minimally different so as not to perturb other historical events, yet cordial enough to forestall the rise of Zionism as a backlash. If the European Jews could simply have stayed home in Europe, there's no question that this would have constituted a paradise from their perspective.
     
    Fraggle Rocker, Dec 17, 2006
    #83

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  7. El_Diablo666

    El_Diablo666 The New World Order Has Begun. Registered Senior Member

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    What do you mean by that? Zephyr isn't jewish too. I dont' even know what you are.
     
    El_Diablo666, Dec 17, 2006
    #84
  8. Mr.Spock

    Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    mmm. im a jewish guy from israel you bloody lying moron.
     
    Mr.Spock, Dec 17, 2006
    #85
  9. El_Diablo666

    El_Diablo666 The New World Order Has Begun. Registered Senior Member

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    Arabs didn't want to finish the job the Nazis did. Where did you get that rubbish?
    And I didn't mean a world without Israel where it was destroyed. I meant a world without Israel where it was never created at all.
    And I'm not stopping them from going back to Europe. By all means, go back immediately! Israel may've been a ground of safety for then, but its over now, so go back!
     
    El_Diablo666, Dec 17, 2006
    #86
  10. El_Diablo666

    El_Diablo666 The New World Order Has Begun. Registered Senior Member

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    How have I lied.
    You are jewish? Amazing, they are so rare, and I've only spotted one in Houston, and I think my eyes burned that day.
     
    El_Diablo666, Dec 17, 2006
    #87
  11. Mr.Spock

    Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    dont you ever come back here, to israel.
    where did he get this rubbish? something called history. did your arabs friends ever tolled you about the mufti of jerusalem?
     
    Mr.Spock, Dec 17, 2006
    #88
  12. El_Diablo666

    El_Diablo666 The New World Order Has Begun. Registered Senior Member

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    It's a free world, man, I am free going there if I wanted to.
    Arabs never wanted to finish hitler's work. In fact, I bet jews were happy with the Holocaust. They may have lost a whole bunch of their people, but at least they had an excuse to commit a mass crime.
     
    El_Diablo666, Dec 17, 2006
    #89
  13. Mr.Spock

    Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    you are a real human garbage. my grandmother lost her entire family when she was 13 years old-im getting sick even thinking we have the same genes.
    only humans can be so cruel to one another. i wonder, how come you met only two israelis. and you didnt answer muy question-do you know who the mufti of jerusalem was?
     
    Mr.Spock, Dec 17, 2006
    #90
  14. El_Diablo666

    El_Diablo666 The New World Order Has Begun. Registered Senior Member

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    I am not cruel. IN fact, you are because you want arabs to die.
    I do not want jews to die. I do not want Israelis to die, but I want them to leave Palestine.
    You are really cruel for wanting the Arabs to die. shame on you, your grandma would be ashamed of you too.

    And yes, al-Huffeini mufti, but he is one person that provoked the arabs even though he himself was one, and they never wanted to finish hitlers job.
     
    El_Diablo666, Dec 17, 2006
    #91
  15. Mr.Spock

    Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    when did said i want arabs to die? i said i want you to die. you and all the people who want me out of my country cause im jewish, zionist or whatever.

    i wonder, how do you explain the 1929 massacre of hebron? a sporadic incident? the jews brought this on themselves?
     
    Mr.Spock, Dec 17, 2006
    #92
  16. El_Diablo666

    El_Diablo666 The New World Order Has Begun. Registered Senior Member

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    You said all moslims and arabs should die, so you are cruel.

    hebron was a horrible tragedy and al-huseini was a terrorist, but he is not all arabs, only him and the arab FOLLOWERS are to blame.
    The irgun had followers and the irgun are terrorists, but if they do something against arabs, it is not neccessarily the will of all Israelis.
    And I don't hate you for anything. I only wish you went to your country or at least give the Palestinians some rights.
     
    El_Diablo666, Dec 17, 2006
    #93
  17. Mr.Spock

    Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    where have i said this?
    can you give me a quote?

    ha so now we know you were lying before.

    what you want me to do, is not even relevant to me. you are not me, and it isnt your life that at stake. you are not the one being persecuted.

    67 jews murdered in one day,an unprovoked attack. this are the people im living with here you have no right to judge me. your ancestors killed native american and stole thier land. you want to start on rights? give indians their lands back.
     
    Mr.Spock, Dec 17, 2006
    #94
  18. El_Diablo666

    El_Diablo666 The New World Order Has Begun. Registered Senior Member

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    they had no official country, so I don't have to
    And I never said al-husseini was not a terrorist. He is and I hate him. I am talking about the others that are trying to take back Palestine. I support taking back palestine, but I am against killing jews or Israelis.

    And earlier you said you hate me and my moslim friends and you want us to die.
     
    El_Diablo666, Dec 17, 2006
    #95
  19. Mr.Spock

    Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    i said i want them to blow you up. you said in your first post :"Not once ever, EVER, in history did it ever belong to Jews, except for the theft of 1948."

    this is blint lie. in fact until i came here, all your post were lies. lies you tolled knowingly. you said jews are glad the holocaust happened and sorts of disgusting things. now you say you dont hate me? if you are going to tarnish someone do it right, and till the end.
     
    Mr.Spock, Dec 17, 2006
    #96
  20. El_Diablo666

    El_Diablo666 The New World Order Has Begun. Registered Senior Member

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    Blowing up means kill, smartass
    And it never did until the theft

    What lies are those? And jews being glad is not my fault. It does not involve me if you are glad your people died, cuz I never wanted you too, that's hitlers fault, not mine, ok? I wasn't even alive back then, so lay off.........
     
    El_Diablo666, Dec 17, 2006
    #97
  21. Mr.Spock

    Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    lay off? now you claim im glad my people die? what kind of sick bastard are you and from did you came from? tell me so i can rid the world of your kind.

    its your fault as much as hitler since you seem to think jews are not people like you and love it when theyre on poeple get killed!

    and yeah i wish that a suicide bomber will blow you up i really really do.
    go back and read some history, maybe you will find out why there were always jews in israel, and why jerusalem is known as "ear(city in hebrew) david".

    moron.
     
    Mr.Spock, Dec 17, 2006
    #98
  22. El_Diablo666

    El_Diablo666 The New World Order Has Begun. Registered Senior Member

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    Lol I don't like it when jews get killed. I just want them gone from Israel.
    Well you obviously want an excuse to stay in Israel, so you might be happy.
    And you're not Israeli! You are a European, there is no such thing as an Israeli since they are really European.

    Go and read some history. In arabic Jerusalem is 'al-Qods'
    Even it says that god gave land to arabs in Qu'ran

    Dumbass moron, know your facts, Israel was never for the jews.
     
    El_Diablo666, Dec 17, 2006
    #99
  23. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    You guys don't know your history very well, considering how passionately you're trying to argue about it.
    Many, if not most, of the people of Afghanistan are not Arabic. The Pashto-speaking tribes are an Indo-European people of Iranic stock, as are the citizens of Tajikistan to the north. So are the Kurds who make up large minorities in several countries.

    The Turks and all of the Turkic peoples in Turkmenistan, Kyrghyzstan, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, which are certainly "Mideastern" countries now that the USSR is no more, are the descendants of Mongols who intermarried with everyone they met as they came to be called Moghuls and Ottomans, invading and occupying the region.
    The "Egyptians" were destroyed as a people by the Arabs, one of the first things they did after receiving Mohammed's loving and peaceful philosophy. The forces of Caliph Omar of Baghdad are widely credited with the infamous burning of the Library at Alexandria. The people who now call themselves "Egyptians" are no more related to the Pharaohs than the people who now call themselves "British" are related to the Britons whom their Anglo-Saxon ancestors ran out of their own homeland. The citizens of modern Egypt have a few drops of Egyptian blood but most of their ancestors were the invading Arabs. The Cushitic civilization that once covered North Africa now survives chiefly in Ethiopia.

    The "ethnicity" of the Palestinians themselves is hotly debated. There has been so much contact among the peoples of the Mideast that it's not easy to define "ethnic" groups by their DNA. But by this measure the Palestinians are as closely related to the Jews as they are to the Arabs. Like the Kurds they speak Arabic because they lived under Arab rule, and even under Ottoman rule before that the Muslim religion bolstered Arabic's position as a lingua franca.

    As a linguist I'm ashamed to admit that language is often a very poor guide to ancestry. If it were, we'd call the European Jews Germanic since Yiddish is an offshoot of German. And we'd call the Bulgarians Slavic since the Bulgars lost their native tongue--possibly of the Ural-Altaic family--and adopted the medieval Slavonic of their Slavic neighbors.

    Oh wait, we do call the Bulgarians Slavs, don't we? Well then we can call the Palestinians Arabs. But it would be best not to to that to the Kurds.
     
    Fraggle Rocker, Dec 17, 2006
    #100
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