A majority of millennials now reject capitalism

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Plazma Inferno!, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. Plazma Inferno! Ding Ding Ding Ding Administrator

    Messages:
    4,609
    In an apparent rejection of the basic principles of the U.S. economy, a new poll shows that most young people do not support capitalism.
    The Harvard University survey, which polled young adults between ages 18 and 29, found that 51 percent of respondents do not support capitalism. Just 42 percent said they support it.
    It isn't clear that the young people in the poll would prefer some alternative system, though. Just 33 percent said they supported socialism. The survey had a margin of error of 2.4 percentage points.
    The results of the survey are difficult to interpret, pollsters noted. Capitalism can mean different things to different people, and the newest generation of voters is frustrated with the status quo, broadly speaking.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...millennials-now-reject-capitalism-poll-shows/
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,507
    Probably has something to do with the limited opportunities available, the high cost of education, and the general malaise of that generation.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,882
    Let's look at the reasons why the cost of higher education is rising:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Public support for higher education is falling. I see it in my state. It has been red state since it was founding. What my state has done, is eliminate the taxes on its wealthiest residents. The Koch's being two of the richest men in the world pay zero state income taxes in my state, the state where they live and do business, while the state runs hundreds of millions of dollars into debt and deficit every year. The state has already suffered one debt downgrade and will likely suffer another within the next 6 months. Its K-12 schools may not open this fall because of funding issues. And the state has for many years now, reduced funding for higher education. That's in large part why higher education has become more expensive.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,337
    Doesn't seem much of a surprise to me. Young people always tend to be on the left and suspicious of the established order, compared with older people. I can't see from this whether attitudes have changed significantly compared with, say, an identical set of questions asked a decade ago.

    Indeed, the word "capitalism"is hard to define in any case and is often understood by people in quite different ways.

    I'm honestly not sure what, if anything, this survey tells us.
     
  8. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,507
    Watching my daughter try to scrape up grants and scholarships tells me that only the most laborous efforts can get a person through school.
     
  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,882
    The cost borne by students has gone up because state funding has been severely curtailed, and funding resources available to students has essentially remained unchanged.
     
  10. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,784
    In England we're in a far worse position with regard university costs than the US. People are typically leaving with debts of c.£44k ($64k) after 3 years of having to pay for tuition (£9k p.a.), board and lodging, and all the fun they have. And that is irrespective of university.

    Many complain, but they only pay it back when they earn over £21k a year, and then their repayments are only 9% of their earnings over £21k.
    Interest starts at RPI but moves up to inflation +3% as they get nearer £41k earnings.

    So if you had £40k of debt and RPI was 1%, if you earnt £30k then £810 would go to repay your loans (being 9% of the £9k above £21k) and interest would have added c.£400k to the total.
    If you earn £100k then you'd pay c.£3.2k (being 4% of earnings above £21k).
    So basically it's like your salary is c.2.5-3.5% lower than it would otherwise have been.

    But the good news is that your debt is basically wiped clear if you haven't paid it off within 30 years.

    Is it really too much for people to have a 3% reduced salary to be able to benefit from a degree that should offer them far more than the % repayment. It's called investing in your own future, and might even give them an incentive to earn more.
     
  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,882
    That sounds like a good way to structure educational debt. I don't know what it is like today, but when I went to school, the term on my educational debt was 10 years and the term began something like 9 months after leaving school.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
    sculptor likes this.
  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,202
    Exactly. Easy to "reject" something when it's just lip service.

    Few people like capitalism. As a wise man once said:

    "Of course capitalism is a flawed system. They all are. Capitalism just seems to be less flawed than others."
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
    joepistole likes this.
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    26,897
    Not really.

    It's a basic term, and people with a decent high school level liberal arts education in the US should be as familiar with it as they are with "democracy" or "interest rate" or "gas mileage".
     
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,882
    I agree, while capitalism is well defined in academia. People in the real world perceive capitalism very differently. The general public is largely ignorant of macroeconomics. So one can understand why people would be confused, most economies are mixed or blended economies incorporating aspects of socialism and capitalism. Look a China for example, officially communist while capitalist are running wild throughout the country. Add that to the fact that most people blend perceive economic systems as political systems. Capitalism is perceived as democratic and communism is perceived as totalitarianism. So, unfortunately, there is confusion. And it is difficult to say what the survey is telling us. But I think it's telling us people are not content with how things are working or not working as maybe the case.
     
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    26,897
    If the people who are "rejecting capitalism" are perceiving it as democratic, we have a more serious problem than at first appears.

    I doubt that, offhand. It's not how they talk, anyway.
     
  16. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,882
    Well, that's not surprising. You're the guy who thinks capitalism and slavery are the same thing, per your previous reference in another thread.
     
  17. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,337
    I think you are misunderstanding iceaura. The way I read it, the comment means that if people, by rejecting capitalism (which has in the past been associated with democratic government), are also rejecting democracy, then yikes! But they probably aren't.

    I find the comment interesting because in Europe I don't think "capitalism" is identified with democracy. I suspect this must be a US perspective. In Europe my sense is that "capitalism" is a neutral to mildly negative term, politically, somewhat associated with c.19th men in top hats with cigars, grinding the faces of the poor, and all that shit. Thatcher did a decent job of rehabilitating capitalism, but the favoured term politically is "market economy", not "capitalism" per se, presumably because of the -ve associations of the latter.
     
  18. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,886
    Interesting that the "journalists" chose to headline this "millenials now reject capitalism", when an even larger percentage of them reject socialism. Why wasn't that the headline?

    I agree with Plazma that much of this is probably just an expression of general alienation and dissatisfaction. If anything, it suggests that the young are skeptical about most of the 'isms' that supposedly offer the solutions to all problems.

    That's not necessarily a bad thing.
     
  19. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    you failed to mention the politician's pay increases and such along with florida's earmarks, during the deficit analysis.

    there is a phrase-- " a team, an institution, and/or state is only as good as the person running it."
     
  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,882
    It is a US perspective. In the US capitalism in many, especially in conservative circles, capitalism is synonymous with democracy; whereas socialism is equated with communism and totalitarianism. That's probably due in no small part to the Cold War and the deeply rooted dissonance between advocates for a strong central government and a weak central government. You see this in our polity. It's continuing theme. So called conservatives love to paint liberals and socialists as autocrats. If Sanders (a candidate for POTUS), should win the Democratic nomination this year, which is extremely doubtful, his history as a career self proclaimed socialist will be a significant headwind for him in the general election. Republicans will use his socialist past to paint him as an autocrat and an advocate of failed economic policies. Socialism is a bad word in much of America, even though most Americans love the socialists aspects of our government (e.g. Social Security and Medicare). They don't view the socialist programs they like as socialist.

    We even have a long standing pejorative term which demonstrates this association between liberalism and socialism and communism (i.e. liberal commie pinko). Socialists have often in American history been painted with the term "liberal commie pinkos" by so called conservatives. While liberals have been associated with communism and autocracy, democracy (i.e. freedom) has been associated with capitalism. And there are several articles published by conservative think tanks which reinforce that association.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinko

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pinko liberal


    Iceaura is a avid Sanders supporter and probably doesn't want to admit his socialist past will be a problem for him in the general election.
     
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,882
    I was talking about Kansas, not Florida. But there are other states with similar problems as you have noted.
     
  22. krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    ahh-- i seen a " florida " image-- i apologize. i will now look up kansas, but i am 100% sure i will find the same data. it is comical for me that the politician's skimming is not an issue. also, look at the politician's tax incentives and deductibles.
     
  23. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,886
    Many Americans kind of equate 'capitalism' with 'the market system'. When we do that, the association with democracy should be obvious. People choose what they want, based on their own needs, choices and desires, as opposed to having to take what they are given by some ruling elite that thinks it understands the people's needs better than the people do themselves. The people's desires represent demand which creates market opportunities for entrepeneurs. In effect, people are voting on the allocation of resources every time they go to the store and make a purchase.

    I think that 'market system' is more commonly used in the US too.

    I don't really know what 'capitalism' means if it doesn't mean 'market system'. It often seems to be a term of abuse hurled by the left, suggesting (to other leftists like themselves, at least) rich factory owners in 19th century dress with top hats (!), busily screwing workers. (We still see that image in political cartoons.) Never mind that most companies these days are publicly traded and those workers' retirement savings are invested in their own and other companies stock. As you British might say, 'capitalism' in that latter perjorative sense appears to be an 'aunt Sally', a Marxist-inspired straw man. It isn't clear how that kind of 'capitalism' is instantiated in the real world.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016

Share This Page