A future without gender

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Fen, May 6, 2003.

  1. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    that's because I am smarter...haha..(bad joke)...

    let me explain then:

    "Hermaphrodite is unstable in species that have a high rate of interbreeding and mate selection."
    Hence hermaphrodite in worms is stable. Male and female states would be less stable because of the need to find a compatible mate. "

    i shall translate your statement -

    sentence one: hermaphrodites are stable in population that doesn not interbreed
    sentence two: hermaphrodites (worms) are stable because they do not interbreed.

    maybe it is more a tautology or self-fulfilling prophecy than a chicken or egg statement (in hindsight).
     
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  3. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Worms are much more likely to inbreed or breed with a very small section of the population. The Worm started out as Hermaphrodite because that was the first sexual type, it remained because its stable not it “became” because it’s stable. When you say "doesn not" you do relies that’s a double negative and I have no clue now what your saying?
     
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  5. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    that's because i translated your statement

    edit: and how do you know that the hermaprodite state is the archetype?
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2003
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  7. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Simple single-cell organism reproduce hermaphroditically, Simple muli-cell organism reproduce hermaphroditically, using similar mechanism as we do, it is believe that we evolve from creature like these hence it is the archetype.
     
  8. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    except that a nematode is not simple, nor are for instance some snails.
     
  9. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sure you don't see them that way but they fit the parameters for stability of hermaophodites and they happen to be more closely genetically related to the ancestor of animals.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2003
  10. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    wow...you should publish this...

    usually people refer to sponges or the phylum of placozoa as the most primitive metazoans.

    and for reproduction in sponges:

    asexual reproduction occurs, but is not that common (although they have a remarkable capacity for regeneration!)

    As for sexual reproduction both hermaproditic and dioecious sponges exist, and mostly sperm and eggs are produced at different times (which would proclude self-fertilization as occurs in c.elegans)

    After that come the bilateral animals. There are 2 major groups of them, the protostomia and the deuterostomia. And of course nematodes fall under protostomia and we vertebrates fall under deuterostomia. Nematodes are therefore not a primitive ancestor of ours. They went there own way with a whole group of other animals a long time ago. I think you may have to adjust your view on the evolutionary tree slightly.

    The most primitive bilateral animal would be something as the flatworm. They are largely hermaphroditic, but also some are dioecious.

    and why are they hermaphroditic?

    From 'Invertebrate zoology', Ruppert anbd Barnes. 6th edition. p209.
    'hermaphroditism is not an adaptation of self-fertilization. In fact most hermaphrodites have structural and physiological barriers that prevent self-fertilization. In stead, hermaphroditism generally prevails under conditions in which potential mates meet infrequently. Such conditions may occur when population densities are low and contacts are infrequent. The security of hermaphroditism is that contact between any two individuals can result in a succesful mating'


    self-fertilizing hermaphrodites are therefore a special adaptation.
    Maybe you should check things first before you claim something with authority.

    edit: On nematodes - 'MOST nematodes are diocecious!!!!, but hermaphrodites, such as the well-studied C elegans, are not uncommon.' p297 invertebrate zoology
     
  11. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    This is not my idea its from "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins... if you disagree with it take up with him.

    I did not say Nematodes were a ancestor of our but are more closely related to the ancestor of every organism under the kingdom animalia.

    I did not say anything about self-fertilization now did I? The book seems to consider that a form of asexuality and does not cover that in this chapter.

    Seems to support Dawkins theory quit well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2003
  12. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    sure...you are always right...

    as i pointed out you don't even know the basics. Blame it on dawkins if you wish...
     
  13. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    What do you mean I don't know the basics? How insulting of you! Do you know what the protostomia and deuterostomia classifications are based off? Which comes first your butt or your mouth, whats your front and back?
     
  14. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    you said something stupid and your are twisting your butt now. Be a man about it. Nobody can be right all the time.
     
  15. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    What did I say that was stupid, wrong I can agree to but stupid now that I can't take without a fight!
     
  16. spuriousmonkey Banned Banned

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    yeah..ok...good for you...I had a few drinks, but you seem to have had one extra.

    edit: and if you want to fight join some martial arts gym
     
  17. spookz Banned Banned

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    so ahh is this genderless/sexless future gonna unfold? in what form?
     

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