Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Stryder, Aug 3, 2007.
I'm still confused on what this has to do with 9/11?
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The argument is that the Keyspan tank demolitions may well have been a test run for the WTC building demolitions. I explain some interesting points regarding the company responsible for it, Controlled Demolitions Inc., as well as responsible for a significant amount of the cleanup of ground zero, in the WTC Collapses thread here.
Why would they need a test run?..they're a professional demo company, they do this all the time... and what purpose would it serve, as the construction of tanks would be much much different than the WTC?
Edit: Also, Scott...if it was a test run..why did they use conventional demolition explosives on the tanks...but then use thermite or thermate or nano-thermate or whatever on the towers?
Former Deputy Director of the FBI, John P. O’Neil stated, “The main obstacles to investigate Islamic terrorism were U.S. oil corporate interests and the role played by Saudi Arabia in it.” Can you think of anyone (Bush) linked to both wealthy Saudi Arabians and U.S. corporate oil? John O’Neil resigned from the FBI after 31 years of service after Barbara Bodine, currently part of the Iraqi transition team, barred him from following up his investigation of the attack on the U.S.S Cole. He took a job heading security at the World Trade Center… his first day of work - September 11, 2001. John O’Neil received the job from Jerome Howard, Former Director of the New York Office of Emergency Management, who happened to have the day off on 9/11.
The top FBI officials in Minneapolis called off investigations of Zacarais Moussaoui, causing bitter resentment among field agents. The man who made the decision not to investigate was promoted!
U.S. military intelligence report revealed details of an international intelligence memo linking Mossad to the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks. The memo was in circulation three weeks before the attacks.”
Who gained the most from the attacks of September 11th? Who had the motive? An Israeli expert on terrorism at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, Ehud Sprinzak said, “From the perspective of Jews, it is the most important public relations act ever committed in our favor.” David Stern, an expert on Israeli intelligence operations stated, “This attack required a high level of military precision and the resources of an advanced intelligence agency. In addition, the attackers would have needed to be extremely familiar with both Air Force One flight operations, civil airline flight paths, and aerial assault tactics on sensitive U.S. cities like Washington.”
/11-NEW EVIDENCE - SMOKE IN BASEMENT ´BEFORE´ JET IMPACT
More crucial evidence has turned up, this time audio tapes and official transcripts... ´Transit Authority conversations between motormen and dispatchers reveal a “heavy smoke situation” on transit line’s 1 and 9 adjacent to and in the sublevel basement area near the North Tower just minutes before the jetliner strike.´
This was before the jetliner struck!!
Former NY Aux. Fire and Policeman Uncovers Transit Authority Tapes Showing ´Heavy Smoke Condition´ Below WTC On 9/11
Transit Authority conversations between motormen and dispatchers reveal a “heavy smoke situation” on transit line’s 1 and 9 (correction N and R Lines on Church and Courtland) adjacent to and in the sublevel basement area near the North Tower just minutes before the jetliner strike.
Note by Sentinel 6 Jan 09 1549hrs:
If you measure the time on the tape 8:47am against the time impact on north tower 8:46am in order to have heavy smoke in one minute almost 5 acres distance away there would have been massive sublevel damage from more than impact damge from AP 1125ft up the tower.
P.s. You can blame les jamison for removing the evidence showing the tape.
So are you trying to infer that the smoke came from the WTC? If so..then why weren't there massive reports from people that were actually in the WTC seeing smoke before the impact? If there was really that much smoke..you think someone other an a couple of transit guys blocks away would have seen it?
Your really grasping at straws.
and try backing up your claims with some links, please.
In honesty, "They can't see the tree for the forest".
There really is no substance to any of the Conspiracy claims, there is obviously going to be no proof as even if there was it wouldn't have a URL to point at. It's just a bunch of speculation and conspiracy. With ever year that passes more of the truth of events is obscured by the twaddle that people have been spamming the internet with.
before you know it, Elvis was involved and Suicide bombed through the front door in a sequinned jumpsuit.
It appears to be a popular pass time for people to perpetuate myths via the internet. It's the main reason why some people that survived the attacks or lost family to them will be more than outraged to hear all the crap that's talked about it.
If Chief Palmer and Fire marshall Bucca made it to floor 78 and made mention of several pockets of fire needing only 2 lines (6 men) to put it out then how do you account for the fact that there was whitish smoke coming from lower floors. What would the white smoke be consistant with? Not an oil and gas fire !! And the fact that that theres evidence of explosives being discharged on the Evan Fairbanks video chasing them up chursh st. proves that theres evidence that is inconsistant with a regular building collapse from natural causes.
If you check the video notice that fire truck strobe beacons and then look right above that level at 4 wtc and 5 WTC as the south tower collapses and as they're running north up church st.
The candle was burning at both ends.
Why do you think it's suggested that when there is a fire in a tall building to use the emergency exit stairs rather than use the lifts?
Simply the shafts can allow for fire to move up through floors quickly, if the lift cables snap there is only the various spring or screw related safety mechanism to stop them crashing to the basement. It's possible that fire or other damage caused by debris could undermine the safety features on a lift causing it to fall to the basement.
This would cause a sound like something had exploded in the basement, perhaps taking debris with it creating dust clouds with in turn could contain ignited material.
It's just something so obvious is more than likely to be missed by the sensationalists.
You could extrapolate this further, if fuel from the plane poured down the shaft to begin with and then eventually ignited, it would react a bit like an Air-fuel bomb causing the entire shaft itself to weaken the central core structural supports and initiating a collapse.
I guess were just supposed to take your word for it, FD... How about a link to this video? How about an image of this white smoke?
Are you trying to say that the fire in the top part of the tower only need 2 lines and 6 firemen to put out?
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Those would have to be some big ass firemen, with some big ass hoses! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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Just from what I can count in the picture 7 stories are invlouved, yeh,
Now tell me Santa Clause if real.
That it is very weak argument, it says a lot i think when someone has to hyperbolate to ridicule an opponents position - it is the last redoubt of desperation.
explain (without far-fetched speculation) the sulphidation of the steel, where did the sulphur come from?
the quote is from firefighters in the south tower who reached the fire zone, your picture is from the north tower.
your picture shows a very small area of the north tower, less that half the width of a single face. the fire in the picture is nowhere near the time of collapse, it is more likely to have been taken closer to the impact time than to the collapse time. the south tower in the foreground evidences this.
the fires were dying down at collapse time.
what were the temperatures in the core at the time of collapse according to NIST's fire simulation?
In the showing of "102Minutes" on the History Channel last anniversary there was a part right before tower collapse where Foxnews CH5 Dick Oliver stated "The Fire seems to be going out" It looks like they got water on the fire"
Now if the firefighters were in stairwell A and the Back up was in stairwell be B and all made mention that only "the walls were breached and no fire was visible till floor 78"
Then there Fire suppression systems were activated. maybe not at 100 percent but, there would have been water all over the place coming from the higher floors as it has been reported by numerous people that water was cascading down the stairwells.
Chief Palmer knew those building inside out and felt confiedent that they could suppress the fire with 2 lines.
These were veterans of the fire service with many years on the job.
Turnout outfit have a heat rating of about 1200degrees
Structural fire fighters’ protective clothing is designed to protect its wearer from the thermal environments experienced during fire fighting. This includes protection from thermal radiation, hot gas convection, and heat conduction from hot surfaces. Fire fighters may receive serious burn injuries from each of these modes of heat transfer or a combination of them even though they are wearing protective clothing. In addition, fire fighters’ protective clothing is often wet when it becomes heated by the fire fighting environment. Hot vapors and steam are generated inside protective clothing systems that also produce serious burn injuries. Fire fighters’ protective clothing has definite physical limits associated with its ability to protect the wearer. These safe use limits are poorly understood and are not addressed in current fire service protective clothing standards.
The Fire Fighting Technology Group is studying these physical safe use limits for thermal performance of fire fighters’ protective clothing, and it is developing new test apparatus and predictive tools that will provide insight into the causes of burn injuries. This effort is helping to develop a better understanding and define the safe use limits of fire service protective clothing. As a result, this research effort will assist in reducing the number of serious fire fighter injuries.
Doffing Superheated Turnout Gear
by Patrick L. Brown
From the 2008 personal protective equipment e-Newsletter, sponsored by
A recent survey by Fire Engineering revealed that a vast majority of firefighters have received little if any training regarding the doffing of superheated turnout gear. This finding is very troublesome, because improper doffing of this turnout gear can cause significant injuries to the firefighter wearing the gear. How do you handle a firefighter encapsulated within superheated turnout gear? Before I answer this question, let me explain how turnout gear works.
How the Gear Works
Turnout gear is comprised of three separate components: the outer shell, the moisture barrier, and the thermal liner.
Outer shell. This provides resistance to flame and heat plus protects the remainder of the gear from rips, tears, and abrasions.
Moisture barrier. This provides some thermal protection because it does have some insulating value, but its most important tasks are preventing fluids from entering the gear while still allowing perspiration out. These tasks are vital to the performance of the gear and to the safety of the firefighter. Water must be kept out to prevent the saturation of the thermal layer. The moisture barrier must also allow body heat and perspiration to escape to reduce the firefighter's rate of metabolic heat buildup. Excessive heat buildup can lead to stress-related injuries for firefighters.
Thermal layer. This blocks the transfer of heat from the fire to the firefighter, accomplished through air pockets within the thermal layer. These pockets of air are poor conductors of heat. It is important to note that the insulating factors of air can be disrupted by moisture and compression. Moisture displaces the air in the air pockets and is a very good conductor of heat. Compression forces out the air in the air pockets, which allows the unimpeded conduction of heat.
As you can see, each component is vital to the performance of the turnout gear; one component is no more important than the next. The components work together and frequently provide more protection as a single unit than the sum of the three parts added together.
How We Know Gear Will Perform Correctly
Now that we understand how turnout gear works, how do we know it is going to perform correctly? Each turnout gear design is independently tested to see if it meets the minimum standards of NFPA 1971, Standard on Protection Ensemble for Structural Fire Fighting and Proximity Fire Fighting. Many values are tested but the ones we will focus on are Flame and Heat Resistance, Thermal Protective Performance (TPP), Total Heat Loss (THL), and Conductive and Compressive Heat Resistance (CCHR).
Flame Resistance is tested by suspending materials that make up the gear in a Bunsen burner flame for 12 seconds. The material is then removed and the time the gear continues to burn is noted. This time represents the "After Flame Time." NFPA 1971 states that materials that make up our gear cannot have an "After Flame Time" of more than two seconds. The materials are also examined for the distance the item is damaged by the fire. This is noted as the "Char Length." The maximum "Char Length" per the 1971standard is four inches.
Heat Resistance is evaluated by placing the materials that make up the gear in a special 500ºF oven for five minutes. The materials that make up the gear are then examined for any signs of ignition, melting, dripping, or separation. None of these conditions is acceptable according to the standard, plus the materials cannot exhibit shrinkage of greater than 10 percent.
Thermal Protective Performance (TPP) represents how well the gear protects the skin from a second-degree burn in flashover situations. This test is performed by placing the three composite layers of the gear in a simulator. Below the layers are a radiant heat source and a convective flame; above the layers is a sensor. Heat transfer and time are noted and compared with a graph showing the blister point of skin. The rating is then derived from this information. The minimum TPP rating according to the NFPA standard is 35. Dividing the TPP rating in half provides roughly the number of seconds until a second-degree burn is sustained. Thus, a TPP rating of 35 provides about 17.5 seconds in a flashover situation before the firefighter receives a second-degree burn. It is important to note that moisture may significantly reduce this number, plus this rating does not take into account any heat retained in the gear prior to the flashover scenario. There is presently no optimized lab test method available for evaluating TPP in prolonged exposure to lower-level radiant heat or for assessing the effects of moisture on the TPP rating of our gear.
Total Heat Loss (THL) assesses the breathability of turnout gear. This is a very important value because the buildup of body heat under turnout gear is very damaging to the body, especially the cardiovascular system. A large number of firefighter fatalities each year are the result of stress-related injuries, namely strokes and heart attacks. Our turnout gear needs to breathe to allow this buildup of heat out. Breathability is so important that the recent revision of NFPA 1971 increased the THL requirement by 50 percent. THL is determined using a "sweating hot plate test." The three layers that make up your turnout gear are placed on a hot plate and a "dry thermal resistance measurement" is taken. Water is then added and an "apparent evaporative thermal resistance measurement" is taken. The measurements are put into an equation and the result is the THL value. The minimum THL rating per NFPA is 205 w/sq. meter. A higher THL represents better breathability. It is important to note that TPP and THL have an inverse relationship. If you increase the TPP rating, you will decrease the THL, and vice versa.
Conductive and Compressive Heat Resistance (CCHR). This standard requires that areas of compression (shoulders and knees) provide the same level of protection as the rest of the turnout gear. This standard is tested with the gear dry and wet on a plate heated to 500ºF. The shoulder portion of the gear is placed on the plate under two psi of pressure (representing the shoulder straps of an SCBA) for 25 seconds. The same is done for the knees but with eight psi of pressure (representing the force a 180-pound firefighter would exert on the knee while kneeling). The shoulders and knees must maintain the same rating as the rest of the gear.
The importance of properly performing turnout gear cannot be overstated.
Why the Environment Is Hotter
Firefighters today face challenges that our forefathers rarely, if ever, encountered. Furniture of the past was stuffed with cotton and horse hair, which had a low heat release rate compared with today's furniture, which is stuffed with synthetic foam. The chairs of the past had a peak heat release rate of about 225 kW. Today's chairs have a peak heat release rate of more than 2,100 kW. The average size family room requires about 1,000 kW before flashover occurs. That being said, the heat release from a modern chair stuffed with synthetic foam will quickly lead to flashover, while the chair from the past stuffed with cotton or horse hair will not produce the same result.
Home fires today are much hotter than fires of the past because homes are filled with items made of similar synthetic materials. Fires today are also hotter because homes are bottled up and better insulated than homes of the past. Today's hotter fires burn while the toxic and highly volatile products of combustion build. There is no place for the heat to go, so the room temperature rises.
We also get to fires much earlier today. In the past, the fire department often wasn't called until the fire was well developed. Today, because of smoke detectors and 911 services, we often get to the fire scene as the fire flashes over.
As firefighters, what do we do if we go into a fire just as the room flashes over? Deputy Chief (Ret.) Vincent Dunn of the Fire Department of New York states the only way for a firefighter to survive a flashover is to get out of the room. He states the point of no return is five feet inside the room. Five feet provides you with a few seconds to get out of the superheated environment. But surviving the flashover doesn't mean everything is now okay. The cool air you are accustomed to breathing from your SCBA has now been heated and is now warm. Every movement is accompanied by burning pain because your turnout gear has been pushed to its limits. It has absorbed all the heat it can and is now off-gassing. You need to get out of the building.
The actions of your fellow firefighters as you exit the building will determine the extent of your injuries. If your fellow firefighters see your turnout gear smoking as you exit the building and turn a hoseline on you to help "cool you down," it is very likely that you will sustain some burns. The water being applied to the superheated turnout gear will likely steam and cause steam burns. In addition, the water is going to disrupt the off-gassing process. This will cause the heat, which was once being off-gassed, to be driven back into the turnout gear, where it will likely steam any moisture in our thermal layer or further heat up the thermal layer. The end result would be the firefighter suffering burns.
I recently heard of a case in which a firefighter came out of a structure after an encounter with a superheated environment. The firefighter was calling out for help because he felt he was burning up. Fellow firefighters came to his aid and started to pat him down while he was in his gear. These firefighters, unknowingly through their actions, pushed the superheated air out of the air pockets of the thermal layer and onto the skin of the distressed firefighter, causing significant burns.
How to Remove Superheated Gear
What is the proper way to assist a firefighter encapsulated in superheated turnout gear? My discussions with turnout gear representatives have led me to this conclusion: Don't hose down the firefighter! Don't pat him down and don't roll him on the ground! The most important thing to do is to get the superheated turnout gear off of the firefighter.
If you are the firefighter trapped within this superheated gear and there is no assistance available, you must economize your movements while trying to prevent compression of your turnout gear as you doff your gear. With gloved hands, loosen the shoulder straps of your SCBA (photos 1).
(1) Photos by author. Click to enlarge
Next start to open the storm flap from the top down while unzipping or unclasping the turnout coat (photos 2, 3).
(2) Click to enlarge
(3) Click to enlarge
On the way down, unbuckle the SCBA waist belt (photo 4), then unclasp and open your turnout pants (photo 5).
(4) Click to enlarge
(5) Click to enlarge
Open the coat wide (photo 6) and roll it and the SCBA off of your shoulders and down your arms (photo 7).
(6) Click to enlarge
(7) Click to enlarge
When the coat is down to the wrist area, you can then bend over to step on and remove the gloves, then step on the coat and remove it the rest of the way (photos 8, 9).
(8) Click to enlarge
(9) Click to enlarge
The coat should be inside out at this point. You can now remove the suspenders from you shoulders (photo 10) and let the pants fall as far as they can (photo 11).
(10) Click to enlarge
(11) Click to enlarge
Pull one foot out of your boot, then completely out of that pant leg (photo 12).
(12) Click to enlarge
Repeat the procedure on the other boot and pant leg (photo 13).
(13) Click to enlarge
Though not optimum, the described method will allow you to remove your gear, with limited injury.
If you are a firefighter who sees another firefighter encapsulated within superheated gear, you must quickly assist him with turnout gear removal. Instruct the encapsulated firefighter to try and stand still to prevent injury. With gloved hands, loosen the SCBA shoulder straps, open the storm flap, and unzip or unclasp the coat. Open the coat wide and roll it and the SCBA over the shoulders and down the arms. Remove the gloves and complete the removal of the coat. Now unclasp and open the pants, remove the suspenders from the shoulders, and let the pants fall. Roll the pants over the boots, and assist with boot removal like standard doffing procedures.
Though unlikely, if the zipper or clasps on the coat have melted or are inoperable, you will need to cut the turnout coat off of the firefighter. With a pair of trauma shears, cut the fabric tape to either side of the zipper. If the coat is equipped with clasps, you are going to have to cut through the coat. Yes, this will destroy the coat, but if it has sustained enough heat damage to melt the zipper or clasps, the coat is not likely to be serviceable any longer. Remember, the best thing to do for a firefighter encapsulated within superheated turnout gear is to properly doff the gear.
The increased use of synthetic materials means fires will continue to burn hotter and, because of the ever-increasing cost of energy, buildings will be built tighter and tighter. It seems very apparent that firefighters are going to encounter more flashovers and more superheated environments. We owe it to each other to know how to properly doff a firefighter encapsulated in superheated turnout gear.
Dunn, Vincent. Safety and Survival on the Fireground (Fire Engineering, 1992).
Kutlu, Bengi and Aysun Cireli. "Thermal Analysis and Performance Properties of Thermal Protective Clothing," Fibers and Textiles, July/Sept. 2005.
Lawson, J. Randall. "Firefighter Protective Clothing and Thermal Environments of Structural Firefighting," National Institute of Standards and Technology, August 1996.
Lawson, J. Randall et al. "Estimates of Thermal Properties of Firefighter Protective Clothing Material," National Institute of Standards and Technology, June 2005.
National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) 1971-2007, Standard on Protection Ensemble for Structural Fire Fighting and Proximity Fire Fighting.
Stull, Jeffrey O. "Understanding Key Turnout Gear Tests," FireRescue1.com, 2007.
Patrick L. Brown is a firefighter and paramedic with the Chicago (IL) Fire Department. He is a state-certified firefighter III, fire officer I, and instructor II as well as a licensed registered nurse specializing in emergency medicine and trauma.
June 16, 2008
Firefighter Turnout Gear
Firefighter structural turnouts. Also referred to as "Bunker Gear", this is the usual protective clothing worn by a firefighter when fighting structural (building) fires, or performing rescues. Turnouts are so named because when not in use, they are kept ready to don quickly by 'turning out' the pants over the boots. This way, the firefighter simply steps into the boots and pulls the pants up. Firefighters are typically expected to be able to don all of their equipment is about one minute. The heavily insulated turnouts can be uncomfortably hot to wear, but keep the extreme temperatures of a fire away from the firefighter's body. Structural turnouts will fail at approximately 1200°F (650°C).
Turnouts consist of a coat, pants and suspenders, leather or rubber waterproof boots, a hood, a strong helmet with eye protection, gloves, and SCBA (Self Contained Breathing Apparatus). When fully dressed, a firefighter will be wearing about 70lbs (32kg) of gear, not including any additional tools being carried.
1- Nomex hood.
2- Cotton t-shirt with department logo small on chest and large on back.
3- Suspenders with retroflective striping, connecting to the pants at eight points.
4- Insulated pants with retroflective striping. They are held closed with velcro and spring hooks. They are reenforced with leather at the knees and bottoms, and have two large side pockets and one smaller rear pocket.
5- Steel toed insulated rubber boots, with Vibram soles. These boots have handles at their tops to help pull them on, and come up to just below the knees.
6- Helmet, with face sheild. These helmets have a velcro/buckle chinstrap, adjustable headband, and a protective cloth flap that hangs over the collar, further protecting the neck and preventing embers from falling down the collar.
7- Face Sheild, attached to helmet. Used for eye protection when not wearing breathing apparatus.
8- Radio. These radios are used to comunicate with other firefighters.
9- D-ring Carabiner, used to clip additional equipment to the coat (not standard issue).
10- Flashlight. Some Department jackets have custom loops to hold the flashlights at center-chest.
11- Insulated leather gloves.
12- Insulated jacket with retroflective striping. Oversized pockets hold radio, gloves, a hose strap, etc. Like the pants, it is held closed with velcro and spring hooks.
13- Positive-pressure mask. Positive pressure means that air is always flowing, whether the wearer is inhaling or not. This keeps contaminants from entering past the seal at the sides.
14- Air-line and pressure gauge. On this particular brand of SCBA, there are two air gauges: one at the bottom of the tank in back (for checking the pressure when the tank isn't being worn), and one in front.
15- SCBA Harness, comprised of shoulder and waist straps.
16- PASS device. Current issue is an integrated PASS/SCBA, which activates automatically when the air supply is turned on.
17- Firefighters engine number or officers unit number labeled on back of helmet.
18- SCBA Shoulder straps.
19- Department Identification.
20- Air tank bottle and backpack frame. The bottle is quick-swappable, because at a working fire a firefighter often goes through several bottles.
21- Regulator and main supply valve.
22- Name label (under tank).
The coat and pants are insulated and reenforced. They are made out of a fire-resistant fabric called PBI. They have retroflective stripes to make them reflect when a light is pointed at them, so that they can be better seen in the dark, as well as glow-in-the-dark patches. They are also equipped with several large pockets for holding gloves, tools, radios, etc.
Rubber or leather waterproof steel-toed boots protect the firefighter's feet. The rubber boots are usually stored within the 'turned out' pants so that they can be quickly donned, hence the term "turnouts".
A fire-retardant hood covers the firefighter's head and neck, protecting ears and other parts that would be exposed under a helmet. When properly worn, no part of the firefighter's skin is exposed or unprotected.
Helmets are color coded, so that the wearer can be quickly identified at a fire scene. For this department, the following color codes are used:
Helmet Color Coding
Firefighting gloves are well insulated, but don't flex very well, being double layered. For rescues (such as vehicle extrication), or take-up (rolling hose after a fire), where heat and flame isn't a concern, a pair of lighter weight, more flexible rescue or single layer wildland gloves can be worn.
SCBA gear consists of a high-pressure air tank, a mask, and a PASS (Personal Alert Safety System) device. Unlike underwater SCUBA gear, these tanks are worn with the regulator valve facing down, not up, in order to protect it from being bashed while the wearer is working in a tight area, or crawling along a floor. Also unlike SCUBA gear, the firefighter's mask covers the entire face, with no mouthpiece. This mask uses a positive pressure flow, not the on-demand flow that underwater gear uses. This means that air is always being pushed into the mask as the firefighter breaths, keeping the pressure inside the mask slightly higher than the outside air pressure. This ensures that any gaps in the mask won't allow smoke or toxic gasses inside. The airtanks carried by the DeKalb County Fire Department are 4500psi (650KPa) high pressure fiberglass-wrapped tanks, which will, under optimum conditions, provide 30 minutes of air. In reality, they supply 15-20 minutes, depending upon how hard the firefighter is working and exercising. These Scott SCBAs have "buddy breathing" hoses, which allow two or more firefighters to share one air bottle, in an emergency.
The PASS (Personal Alert Safety System) device, also known as a PAD (Personal Alert Device), is worn by firefighters in case they get injured or knocked unconscious. Once activated, the PASS device will set off a loud alarm and flashing light if it senses that the firefighter is completely motionless for some period of time, (around 30 seconds). This helps others locate and rescue the downed firefighter. It can also be manually activated by a firefighter in trouble to summon aid. These devices are integrated into the SCBA pack, and turn on automatically when the breathing air is turned on.
Some firefighters also wear a tool belt (sometimes referred to as a "trucker belt" to tuck additional tools into, such as pry bars or axes.
So there you have it.
Fire could not have reached the 2700degrees the steel would have needed to compremise the strength of the support collums in either of the towers.
Not to mention the heavy asbestos that was put inot the construction.
Rsqsrvs link Prior to 911 on July 15,2001 there was a controlled demolition at the Greenpoint Holder Tank located in Brooklyn East Williamsberg\Greenpoint area. This Controlled Demolition was Contracted by Keyspan Energy to Controlled Demolition Inc. And the Gulliani Administration. I don't have much information as to the contract information, but it is a comfirmed incident and can be traced using google. Another problem is with the removal of City records relating to everyday meetings and negotiations, so I can only provide Key people and imformtion on whats already out in the loop. I am a Former NYPD Aux-PO and am conducting a crimminal investigation into 911. Being that there is no official investigation from the powers that be, we have the God Blessing from the Inter-net and the dedicated private investigators out there all over the world communicating. I don't know how long we will be able to cross communicate as the government seems inten on controlling free speech rights guarrenteed by the bill of right and the constitution, so you've got to really try to get out the message quickly. I am also currently an FDNY Aux Lt Fireman who is working on my 11th years with the New York City Fire Department as an Civil Defense Fireman under the New York State Emergency Defense Act of 1951 after the Federal Civil Defense Act of 1950 signed in to Order by President Harry S Truman during the ColdWar. I took FEMA Courses Prior to 911 in Emergecy Program Management and Radiological Monitoring. My specialty is Cross-Monitoring/Communications Inter-Ops. It is my opinion the Different First Responder Agencies responding to the same emergency need their information in real time while still in response mode. This is something that I was trying to put out to the different agencies prior to 911. Chief Eugene Kelty Formerly Captain of Engine/Ladder Ten is my witness to this. I programed the MessHall Scanner while operating of of TenHouse 98/99. I don't claim to Know everything regarding 911 and I am not an expert on Demolitions and the Mathimatical Principles, and the comment made in error about knowing about a gag order by Woolsey is false, this was speculation and not a statement of fact. Mr Woolseys son was rescued from the south tower by firemen on 911. It is my op[inion that there wouldn't be a father who would knowingly allow his son or daughter to die or be injured by something he knew was coming. (Then again this is only my opinion) But I will say that I was there and I heard the Explossions which in my opinion had nothing to do with the Plane crashes. If anyone is interested in the Research between the Keyspan Holdertanks Demo and the coincidences between this and 911. Send E-mail to Rsqsrvs@Yahoo.com. Maybe someone with abilty can further the research into this anomoly. there is no charge for the information. I believe in truth NOT Profit. this is the deviding line. Be safe everyone, God Bless Paul Isaac Jr FDNY Auxiliary Fire Corps (NYS/NYC Civil Defense) Auxiliary Lt Fireman/ Former NYPD Auxiliary Police Officer Controlled Demolitions 23.Apr.2005 18:34 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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