8 year old murders father and friend...

Discussion in 'World Events' started by cosmictraveler, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    ST. JOHNS, Ariz.: By all accounts, he was a good boy. No problems in school. No disruptions in his religious education classes at St. Johns Catholic Church, where he was to mark his First Communion this year.

    So police and neighbors in the 8-year-old's small eastern Arizona community are at a loss to explain why he would have used a .22-caliber rifle to kill his father and another man at their home.

    "That child, I don't think he knows what he did, and it was brutal," said the family priest, the Very Rev. John Paul Sauter.

    Police say the boy killed his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and another man, Timothy Romans, 39, on Wednesday. The men worked together, and Romans had been renting a room at the house, prosecutors said.

    The boy, who faces two counts of premeditated murder, did not act on the spur of the moment, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said. Police are looking into whether he might have been abused.



    http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/11/09/america/Child-Charged-Optional.php
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. cato less hate, more science Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,959
    my bet is abuse
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    Well, that sure covers a lot of territory, don't it??

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    I've been reading about that case in the newspapers, but so far, there's nothing that's turned up about why he did it. And that being said, I'm not sure that we could ever really believe what he says about it. If nothing more than his defense attorney coaching him on what and what not to say.

    That being said, and knowing a few eight-yr olds myself, I dont think they necessarily can fully grasp the concept of death and/or "never coming back". For example, he might have thought to test the theory of "never coming back" to see if they might come back ....just like in the movies.

    Baron Max
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    23,468
    No one knows what happened leading up to the shooting or the reasons behind the shooting. While the police have said they are investigating whether he was abused, it is all kind of up in the air at the moment.

    They are, however, attempting to charge him as an adult.

    As for Baron's comment about whether the child should be believed or not.. Something to keep in mind about his 'confession'..

     
  8. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    you have got to be kidding bells, charging a EIGHT year old as an adult???????
    i didnt even think an 8 year old could be ruled criminally compitant

    Whats next, the youngest excution???????????

    Fucking idiotic yanks
     
  9. distantcube Registered Member

    Messages:
    142
    That sounds pretty dodgy...
     
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,424
    Oh, for fuck's sake

    Oh, calm down. We got that one figured out a few years ago. See Roper v. Simmons. Scalia's dissent is morbidly hilarious. (He wrote the original opinion that was effectively overturned by this decision.)
     
  11. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    great so insted he will get life without the possablity

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    hey why dont you lock him up with the child molesters so that they have someone to do

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    the only people being charged in this case should be whoever was stupid enough to let an 8 year old get there hands on a gun
     
  12. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    BTW that was just the majority ruling, the minority must be somewhere else
     
  13. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    23,468
    ?

    Read the article. If convicted, he will face being placed in juvenile detention until he is 18.

    And you can't charge the person who allowed him to have a gun. That individual is dead.. Shot by the child.
     
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,424
    Seriously ... I think you're getting too worked up about it at this point

    In the first place, Arizona law allows authorities to charge anyone older than eight as an adult. And, hey, the laws in Arizona are occasionally fucked up.

    Secondly, St. John's, Arizona is a town of around 3,600 people, and is the seat of Apache County—population 70,000.

    This is the kind of place where we can expect prosecutors to charge as many children as adults as they possibly can. And it's the kind of place where a jury is more likely to convict an eight year old as an adult. But despite its weird history, Arizona is not the Asshole of American Civilization. Well, okay. St. John's isn't. Apache County isn't. That title goes to St. Joseph's Hospital, over in Phoenix, Arizona. But that's another story.

    I'd suggest we await the results of the psych eval, at least, before having a frowny-face jamboree.

    Well, at least one of those people is already dead, so why don't you call it even? Beyond that, you're talking about a prior legislature, and at least some of those participants are already dead.

    • • •​

    That's if he's convicted as a minor, which is what prosecutors don't want.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2008
  15. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    23,468
    EEeeekk yes. Of course. I realised that after I'd posted it.

    From the article though, it seems the prosecutors themselves don't know how to proceed with this case. And that it is the police who wish to pursue charging him as an adult.

    Either way.. it's pretty fucked up. He's 8 years of age. What 8 year old child picks up a gun and guns down his father and boarder in his own home and then walks to the neighbour's house and says he thinks his father is dead? I suspect no one actually knows the true reason behind this, except the boy and the victims.

    As I said.. it is a fucked up situation no matter how you might look at it.
     
  16. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,102
    What is it with 8 year olds and guns. You know the old conspiracy that disasters come in 3's, I'd suggest any American with an 8 year old kid to make sure they've locked their firearms safely away... just be careful how you approach you're kid when you check on them... just incase.
     
  17. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    I definitely like the way you think on this particular issue, Tiassa. You should try that same logical reasoning in other murder cases!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Baron Max
     
  18. Idle Mind What the hell, man? Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,709
    I'm not sure that's right. Did you pull it from the article, or elsewhere?

    In the article it says:
    That indicates to me that persons younger than 8 cannot be charged criminally, but does not state that someone the age of 8 or older can be tried as an adult. Unless juveniles are not charged "criminally", then I repeal my comment.
     
  19. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    Well, on tv, in the movies and on video games the victims always get up and the games start again, don't they. Hell, he was just playing a little video game himself .....bang! bang! Okay, Daddy, you can get up now.

    Baron Max
     
  20. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    tiassa i compleatly agree, the cause of death should be marked as "death by miss adventure in that he was stupid enough to let an 8 year old get his hands on a gun" on his death certificate and that should be the end of it (unless the mother or someone else needs to be charged as well)

    Hell if the kid wasnt his son he should be given a darwin award as well

    Bells if this case crossed YOUR desk what would you do?
    he is 8 rember, not 16
     
  21. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    But you don't know what happened. You don't know how he got the gun. You don't know if he might have sneaked in and unlocked the gun from a gun safe. See? You're making those comments based on virtually no known evidence or knowledge. Hell, the gun might have been his friend's gun ...for all you know about it.

    Isn't it a nice thing that we have courts and laws ....instead of people like you who jump rabidly to conclusions ...and act happy and glad that someone is dead?

    Baron Max
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,424
    Juvenile justice

    Eighteen or twenty-one are usually the limits of correctional custody of criminals convicted as minors in the United States, depending on each state, and barring extraordinary or aggravating factors.

    And that information is, indeed, in the article:

    _____________________

    Notes:

    Associated Press. "8-year-old charged with murdering father and renter". International Herald Tribune. November 9, 2008. http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/11/09/america/Child-Charged-Optional.php
     
  23. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,049
    for once i compleatly agree with barron, that is EXACTLY the reason why young children CANT be held culpable for there actions

    acording to peterson moral development only STARTS to develop during middle childhood

    acording to a study carried out by H Hartshorne and M May (1928) "there is no such thing as a moral child"

    from years 5-9 children are working under Heteronomous morality which means that there morals are COMPLEATLY based on autority (ie what there parents have said). The example given is that it is morally worse to breake a dozen eggs helping a parent put away the shopping than to break one by hurling it at the cat

    Its only after age 10 where we get into moral reasoning based on the intentions of the person commiting the action.

    This is just looking at the incident as that the child KNEW what he was doing and made a moral choice

    On a cognative level the child is still working on concreat thinking, the example given to us in class was that a child this young (and slightly older) cant understand why its called a strike if they both swing at a base ball and miss OR if they dont swing at a legal ball

    This ties in DIRECTLY with what barron was saying about observational behavoral adaption. They see that people who are shot in a movie are still there in another movie and cant understand the difference between the movie and real life.

    There really is no reason to look for abuse to explaine this action, behavoral psychology will do it quite easerly and pradictably. The ONLY people resoncable for this ACIDENT are those who put the gun in the childs hands
     

Share This Page