380acp
- Thread starter R1D2
- Start date
It depends *entirely* upon the application. For example, you probably would not want to use a .380 for shooting rats nor as an anti-tank weapon.
Give me a .22 with a larger clip. More accuracy, less time between shots. You might not kill them if you hit them in the body, but a head shot is almost guaranteed to scramble their brains. Besides in a gun fight your head is the #1 part exposed. Ricochet is easier to direct for shooting under or around things.
It depends *entirely* upon the application. For example, you probably would not want to use a .380 for shooting rats nor as an anti-tank weapon.
And at 20 $ and up not a cheap ammo weapon...
Side note
22 ammo seems to have more issues.
I've got a friend who does his own reloads. He gets me my ammo free. He's pretty good, and I've never had a misfire with his loads. Gets me my .357 mag also.
I like target shooting. I didn't start until I was in my mid-50s. It's just something I like doing. A good gun is a very well built, precision mechanism, and I get satisfaction in controlling it and seeing the little holes in the x-ring.
And I prefer my Walther P-38. Excellent fit for the hand, nearly perfectly balanced, designed so that the recoil/ejection does not throw the weapon off it's aim. Also, it's natural aiming characteristic is nearly identical with pointing your index finger at the target. *Very* much a handy attribute if in a situation where you cannot extend your arm fully and use the sights for aiming. While not a small weapon, it's easily concealed in my underarm clip-style shoulder holster while wearing a light windbreaker or suit coat.
For those of you not familiar with it, it was the replacement for the German officer's sidearm in WWII which was formerly the Luger.
I'm pretty much the same as AlexG - there's no "fascination" as you so rudely put it. Rather, it's more like a combination of a hobby coupled with the physical exercise needed to become proficient with it. And although I've had a carry permit for years and years, I've never once used it in self-defense or otherwise.
I actually own a matched pair of P-38s, the only difference being the grips - one is the original plastic and the other is wooden (walnut). Both have matching serial numbers on all the parts. They are quite valuable collector's items - but they are not for sale.
I'm pretty much the same as AlexG - there's no "fascination" as you so rudely put it. Rather, it's more like a combination of a hobby coupled with the physical exercise needed to become proficient with it. And although I've had a carry permit for years and years, I've never once used it in self-defense or otherwise.
I actually own a matched pair of P-38s, the only difference being the grips - one is the original plastic and the other is wooden (walnut). Both have matching serial numbers on all the parts. They are quite valuable collector's items - but they are not for sale.
Good for you. Is that I know a fellow serving 50 years , " well controlled " now about 70 years old He likes to fish and hunt , and in an occasion under the influence he discharged his weapon
R1D2
For what, pissing your assailant off? Police officers have shot people 13 times with a 9 mm(a much more powerful cartridge)and still been killed by the perp. Get a Judge, it's five shots of either 410 shotgun or 45 Long Colt in a small, concealable package. There are even 410 shells loaded with 00 or slugs with fast burning powder designed specifically for this gun. You'll want to remove the front sight and bob and smooth the hammer so it won't hang on your clothing when you pull it out(or just shoot from your pocket, you can always buy a new jacket), practice double action only shooting until it is as natural as breathing and you will be as safe as a gun can make you.
Alternatively, get a Charter Arms Bulldog in 44 special(one and one third pounds, total). They can be hand loaded to near 44 mag levels and the Target Bulldog with 4 inch barrel and adjustable sights is a sweet shooting and extremely accurate pistol(I've had one for decades, would rather sell my toes than that gun). It's sloped front sight just needs smoothing, as does the hammer spur. DA only, so you are used to point and shoot when you do need it.
And if you just MUST have an auto(a bad idea for a defense gun, but to each his own)accept nothing LESS than a 45 ACP, the most proven man stopper on the face of the Earth. There are more powerful(and harder to handle)cartridges, but there was a reason the US Army stuck with it through two world wars, Korea and Vietnam. It is the right combination of power and handling and the 1911 Colt is as reliable as autos get.
I would even take a good 22 or 22 magnum over any 380 or 9 mm auto or 38 special(and depend on accuracy and multiple shots, not mass downrange)and the 357 and 44 mag are too hard to handle in a small frame gun. Stay away from larger than 45 caliber autos for home defense, they are essentially single shots as they kick like a mule and your second shot is likely going through the roof, the third through the wall behind you.
For what, pissing your assailant off? Police officers have shot people 13 times with a 9 mm(a much more powerful cartridge)and still been killed by the perp. Get a Judge, it's five shots of either 410 shotgun or 45 Long Colt in a small, concealable package. There are even 410 shells loaded with 00 or slugs with fast burning powder designed specifically for this gun. You'll want to remove the front sight and bob and smooth the hammer so it won't hang on your clothing when you pull it out(or just shoot from your pocket, you can always buy a new jacket), practice double action only shooting until it is as natural as breathing and you will be as safe as a gun can make you.
Alternatively, get a Charter Arms Bulldog in 44 special(one and one third pounds, total). They can be hand loaded to near 44 mag levels and the Target Bulldog with 4 inch barrel and adjustable sights is a sweet shooting and extremely accurate pistol(I've had one for decades, would rather sell my toes than that gun). It's sloped front sight just needs smoothing, as does the hammer spur. DA only, so you are used to point and shoot when you do need it.
And if you just MUST have an auto(a bad idea for a defense gun, but to each his own)accept nothing LESS than a 45 ACP, the most proven man stopper on the face of the Earth. There are more powerful(and harder to handle)cartridges, but there was a reason the US Army stuck with it through two world wars, Korea and Vietnam. It is the right combination of power and handling and the 1911 Colt is as reliable as autos get.
I would even take a good 22 or 22 magnum over any 380 or 9 mm auto or 38 special(and depend on accuracy and multiple shots, not mass downrange)and the 357 and 44 mag are too hard to handle in a small frame gun. Stay away from larger than 45 caliber autos for home defense, they are essentially single shots as they kick like a mule and your second shot is likely going through the roof, the third through the wall behind you.
:shrug: Well, in all my years, and they're more than a few, I've never been in a situation where I would have to use a gun against another person. And I don't expect to be, so my .380 will do just fine. The most I'd expect to use it against would be dogs. There have been more than a few pit bull attacks up here lately.
AlexG
I was in Vietnam, a 45 saved my life several times. I hope I never need my gun again and I don't carry most of the time. It's mainly for home defense(bears, dogs, snakes and assholes). The 44 special will handle them all(well, with a bear I would prefer a 12 gauge with slugs), as will the 45 auto. The 380, not so much, even for a big dog. Again, you'll be better off with a 22 in that case, both are basically just noise makers, but you can shoot a 22 accurately(aim for their eyes, either one will do, or split the difference)and at high rates(again, accurately), plus it's much cheaper to shoot.
Grumpy
I was in Vietnam, a 45 saved my life several times. I hope I never need my gun again and I don't carry most of the time. It's mainly for home defense(bears, dogs, snakes and assholes). The 44 special will handle them all(well, with a bear I would prefer a 12 gauge with slugs), as will the 45 auto. The 380, not so much, even for a big dog. Again, you'll be better off with a 22 in that case, both are basically just noise makers, but you can shoot a 22 accurately(aim for their eyes, either one will do, or split the difference)and at high rates(again, accurately), plus it's much cheaper to shoot.
Grumpy
For any animal of size (and I'm now living up in the hills of central NH), I've got a couple of .357 mags, a 1911 .45, a .40 'baby desert eagle' (which I don't like at all). With 14 rounds in the .380, I can put enough in any dog to put it down.
I prefer the 1911 Colt .45 my grandfather taught me to shoot on... I like the idea that virtually ANY kind of hit is going to put the target down in a big way. The way I look at it, in the kind of situation where I would be turning that weapon on a human being, I can't be certain I would have the capacity for truly targeted shots. As such, I need to know that any kind of center-mass hit is going to do the job, and with something like the .45 ACP, even if I hit an extremity, it isn't likely they'll be USING that extremity anytime soon.
The 380 I shot has about 8 rounds. Any hit would make me think twice, I would not want to be shot. A really long time ago I was "shot" with a BB gun, it hurt like hell. And the removal the BB didn't feel good either.
Arauca I have been around weapons since I was little. I'm used to them. And there are hunters that try to manage animal populations because of disease, and numbers, because they jump in front of cars. And hunt for reasons you would not understand. And a weapon like a rifle is needed.
And Grumpy,
The army has switched to the Beretta M9 a 9mm pistol.
The 380 was used as a back up weapon by many for years.
Arauca I have been around weapons since I was little. I'm used to them. And there are hunters that try to manage animal populations because of disease, and numbers, because they jump in front of cars. And hunt for reasons you would not understand. And a weapon like a rifle is needed.
And Grumpy,
The army has switched to the Beretta M9 a 9mm pistol.
The 380 was used as a back up weapon by many for years.
R1D2
Yes, a huge mistake IMHO. The reason they gave was commonality with NATO. Now everyone in NATO has an underperforming sidearm, whee.:wtf:
The US adopted the 1911 early in WW1 and only changed it a few years ago. There is a reason we kept it for nearly a century. Hit someone in the arm with a 9mm and he can still shoot you dead WITH THAT ARM. Hit someone in the arm with a 45 and he will have to pick himself up off the floor and he cannot shoot you with that arm, assuming the arm is still attached. A solid body shot knocks even the biggest assailant down. As I said, the most proven man stopper on the face of the planet. It's a little outdated, but I see it as having been developed and debugged for a century, we know how to make them reliable and accurate, and the 9mm round is just too wimpy for a military cartridge(or home defense). Even a 40 is marginal.
Yes, they use them as backups, but today even their service weapon is too small, you'll need a BU gun with more punch. Police officers are sometimes required to carry 9s with hardball, a lot of them are going with something like this for a backup
The Double Tap. Two 45 rounds in the barrels, two in the grip. I would rather have two 45s than a whole clip of 9mm.
Kimber Ultra Carry II. 7 rounds 45 ACP, 25 ounce(about 1.5 pounds)loaded.
Or a Glock 36, 7 rounds 45.
Just because it's a backup doesn't mean it has to be just a noise maker. It would be more effective to hit the perp over the head with a 380 pistol than it would be to shoot them with it(at least in the few seconds of combat, it doesn't matter if the perp finally falls down if he has enough time to kill you first). Even the best 9mm is no better, too many cops have been killed by perps that already have a dozen or more 9mm in them.
Grumpy
Yes, a huge mistake IMHO. The reason they gave was commonality with NATO. Now everyone in NATO has an underperforming sidearm, whee.:wtf:
The US adopted the 1911 early in WW1 and only changed it a few years ago. There is a reason we kept it for nearly a century. Hit someone in the arm with a 9mm and he can still shoot you dead WITH THAT ARM. Hit someone in the arm with a 45 and he will have to pick himself up off the floor and he cannot shoot you with that arm, assuming the arm is still attached. A solid body shot knocks even the biggest assailant down. As I said, the most proven man stopper on the face of the planet. It's a little outdated, but I see it as having been developed and debugged for a century, we know how to make them reliable and accurate, and the 9mm round is just too wimpy for a military cartridge(or home defense). Even a 40 is marginal.
Yes, they use them as backups, but today even their service weapon is too small, you'll need a BU gun with more punch. Police officers are sometimes required to carry 9s with hardball, a lot of them are going with something like this for a backup
The Double Tap. Two 45 rounds in the barrels, two in the grip. I would rather have two 45s than a whole clip of 9mm.
Kimber Ultra Carry II. 7 rounds 45 ACP, 25 ounce(about 1.5 pounds)loaded.
Or a Glock 36, 7 rounds 45.
Just because it's a backup doesn't mean it has to be just a noise maker. It would be more effective to hit the perp over the head with a 380 pistol than it would be to shoot them with it(at least in the few seconds of combat, it doesn't matter if the perp finally falls down if he has enough time to kill you first). Even the best 9mm is no better, too many cops have been killed by perps that already have a dozen or more 9mm in them.
Grumpy
Sometimes I take my family to downtown Detroit, sometimes I transport very expensive uninsured items that do not belong to me. On top of that, I am a martial artist and proficient with many weapons. Also licensed to carry the pistols.
A Beretta .25 semi for an easy carry and a S&W SS J - frame .357 for heavier carry. If they are close enough then I will pull one, if not I will run away. I can run very fast and very far so that is my first option.
For dogs I carry Sabre pepper spray, that works very well. Also deters human assaults. I have actually used it on attacking dogs, only had to draw and show it to the humans while suggesting they leave me alone and go away. Carry the .357 in the bush to dissuade black bears, though I would start with the pepper spray. Also carry a Shrike combat tomahawk in the bush as it is legal pretty much everywhere as a 'camping hatchet'. It will kill a bear or take out tires, cost as much as the S & W. Also chops firewood right nicely.
A Beretta .25 semi for an easy carry and a S&W SS J - frame .357 for heavier carry. If they are close enough then I will pull one, if not I will run away. I can run very fast and very far so that is my first option.
For dogs I carry Sabre pepper spray, that works very well. Also deters human assaults. I have actually used it on attacking dogs, only had to draw and show it to the humans while suggesting they leave me alone and go away. Carry the .357 in the bush to dissuade black bears, though I would start with the pepper spray. Also carry a Shrike combat tomahawk in the bush as it is legal pretty much everywhere as a 'camping hatchet'. It will kill a bear or take out tires, cost as much as the S & W.
Also chops firewood right nicely.