Jesus is not God

I found this to be an interesting excerpt from Anti-Missionary@yahoo.com. It makes it very clear that Jesus could not possibly be God.

GOD IS NOT A MAN NOR A MORTAL

God is not a man that He should lie, nor a mortal that He should change His mind. (Numbers 23:19)

GOD IS ALWAYS THE SAME

And also the Eternal One of Israel will not lie nor change His mind; for he is not a man, that He should change His mind. (I Samuel 15:29)

GOD IS ONE

Do not put your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no salvation! (Psalm 146:3)

JESUS ADMITS HE'S NOT GOD

. . . because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)

GOD MAKES IT CLEAR--DON'T FOLLOW JESUS

Deuteronomy 6:14

You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you!

GOD IS ONE--NOT THREE

Deuteronomy 32:39

See, now, that I, I am He -- and no god is with Me . . . .

JESUS IS NOT THE SAVIOR

Isaiah 43:10-11

“You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before Me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”

JESUS IS NOT GOD

Isaiah 44:6-8

This is what the Lord says, Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty, “I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no God! Who then is like Me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare it and lay it out before Me . . . . Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”

THERE IS NOT GOD BUT GOD--NOT JESUS

Isaiah 46:9

Remember the first things of old, that I am God and there is no other; I am God and there is none like Me.

JESUS IS NOT GOD

Hosea 13:4

I am the Lord your God, Who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no God but Me, no Savior except Me!

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD--GOD HIMSELF

Joel 2:27

You shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and I am the Lord your God, there is no other; and My people shall never be ashamed.

ONLY ONE GOD

Malachi 2:10

Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why should we betray, each one his brother, to profane the covenant of our forefathers?

WORSHIP NO GOD, BUT THE ONE GOD

Psalm 81:8-9

Hear, O My people, and I will admonish you; O Israel, if you would listen to Me! Let there be no strange god among you; nor shall you worship any foreign god.

THE ONENESS OF GOD

I Chronicles 17:20

O Lord, there is none like You, neither is there any God beside You, according to all that we have heard with our ears!

(Taken from www.jdstone.org/truth/)

 

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In which case, God is not God:

Gen.6:6
"And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."

Ex.32:14
"And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

Dt.32:36
"For the Lord shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants.

1 Sam.15:11
"It repenteth me [God] that I have set up Saul to be king."

'nuff said?

~Raithere

 

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What bible or website are you using Raithere? Most of the verses translated in my bible show only God's regret not repentance. God doesn't change but men do. Some of the translations are outright different. For example, Deut. 32:36 "Surely, the LORD shall do justice for his people; on his servants he shall have pity. " Ex. 32:14 "So the LORD relented in the punishment he had threatened to inflict on his people."

 

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Ah I see the SAB

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well said Medicine.

How can Jesus be God when he himself prayed to God as the Bible informs us ???????????????

www.jesus-or-allah.com

 

Jesus is the manifestation of the One God-who-cannot-change's salvation on earth. The arm is not separate from the body, and it is lesser than the body in nature but equal to it in action and authority.

When did Jesus ever change his mind about embodying the salvation of mankind? He could have esaped death on the cross but He didn't.

God never lied or changed his mind. He could take different routes to the same end, because all options are available to Him, but that's not the same as changing his mind.

Raithere, you'll see in each of your quotes that whatever God thought about the situation, He did not change his mind in any of those cases. He still made Saul king, while He postponed punishment, He still judged his people, and He still made man on earth (twice you might say, with Adam and Noah.)

True. Put your trust in God and accept the method of His salvation when it comes from Him.

Jesus admits He is not the Father.

Follow the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Jesus.

Matthew 17:5
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"

Trinity doesn't mean three Gods. It describes the threefold nature of one God. The only separation between them is human, not divine.

Isaiah 49:6
he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

Who is like God? Who proclaimed and declared it? God himself!

Revelation 1
17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever!

But unless Jesus is really the Word of God, then all other gods are like him - promising salvation but never delivering!

And we don't.

And God spread his gospel from Israel to the gentiles, and I'm not ashamed to proclaim it.

Hebrews 2:11
10In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.

1 Corinthians 8
4...We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Amen.

 

Re: Re: Jesus is not God

 

Ugh, I give.

It was late, I was grumpy, and irritated with MW for continuing to dodge me whenever I press her on any issue.
Forgive my intrusion; I have no real desire to argue semantics and interpretation from a Christian perspective I do not hold.

~Raithere

 

And now a quote from an opposing viewpoint.

Pastor Perry F. Rockwood http://www.tpgh.org/archive/christis.htm


Plus some other opposing viewpoints.

http://www.peaceministry.org/freq1.htm

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm

 

I don't follow...

whattya mean "only god could say.."? Anyone can say that sentence, it isn't difficult. In fact, i think David Koresh said it a good few times. I guess that makes him one of the dissections of god. Any idea which Jenyar? Left leg perhaps, or maybe the right ear?

Word of advice: Never ever trust necromancers. Nasty people.

Furthermore, everyone seems to forget Hebrews where god specifically says jesus is nothing more than a priest.

 

Obviously you are the only person in the world who knows what Jesus said and what he didn't.

 

Maybe so. Don't you wish you did?

 

Only the NT scriptures proclaim such nonsense. The OT simply does not support this blasphemy; see Isaiah 14:10 and Ezekiel 28:2.

Jesus wasn't the first to make such claims, and he wasn't the last. But there was a special fate awaiting those who made such claims to their fellow Jews in biblical times, as required by their god. See Isaiah 14:12-15 and Ezekiel 28:6-10.

You mean, he was perfect until iniquity was found in him; see Ezekiel 28:12-15.

To be more precise, Hell stirred up the dead for him; see Isaiah 14:9.

If there are any OT passages that could possibly be a reference to Jesus at all (veiled or otherwise), they are Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 - Jesus fits the classic "fallen god" pattern found in both of these chapters. I'm just not sure Christians are willing to admit this.

 

And that is why Jesus was crucified! The law condemned him for blasphemy even when he never blasphemed, because he was the real thing. The law ended up condemning the truth, and that exposed the weakness of the law, and established the superiority of the Truth.

There is one major difference, and that is what the claims were and what God's reaction was. The king of Babylon fell like a star (cf. Satan who "fell to earth like lighting" according to Jesus). The similarity is there, almost like a natural course of events: birth, life, death... but where the Morning Star claimed he would be equal with God, Jesus never voiced that claim - he never said "I am God", he never amassed wealth or became proud. Instead, he let the truth speak for itself. The difference between Jesus and Lucifer was humility. Both "descended into death", but only Jesus was resurrected and acclaimed by God himself.

Wickedness and inequity was found in the King of Tyre, but it wasn't found in Jesus. That is why death had no hold on him.

 

Jesus was not Truth. He didn't keep his promise to return for his followers in their lifetimes; he lied about preaching openly and keeping none of his teachings secret; he lied to his brothers about going to the feast of Tabernacles; he lied about upholding Jewish law; he lied when he said that he was sent only unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel - Jesus was a liar! At least, his "truths" were not revealed openly to everyone - that is, he intentionally deceived people by the way he worded the things he told them. It's kind of like those lateral thinking puzzles that purposely lead you astray with their clues. Or like certain movies, like "The Sixth Sense" or "The Usual Suspects," that intentionally deceive the viewer into believing one thing, while brazenly flaunting the obvious truth, daring the viewer to move beyond the deception and discover the man behind the curtain, so to speak.

The King of Babylon, Prince of Tyre and King of Tyre were the archetypes from which Jesus was created. Jesus even revealed that he was the Morning Star at the end of Revelations. How much plainer does it need to be?

 

He did return, first in the garden, then to the Emmaus travellers, then to the twelve, then to 500 witnesses.

He did preach openly, and where did he say what he would keep secret and what would be revealed when the time was right?

I've addressed this before.

He fulfilled the law and gave it back its meaning. Merely upholding it, apparently, wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

He was only sent to the lost sheep, that didn't mean we couldn't eat the crumbs that fell from the table - and that is more than enough, as He would prove twice.

It's like anything in life where you only learn if you do the thinking yourself. And you only prove that you've thought about it by solving the puzzle. He was always there to explain it to those who asked (read it after each parable...)

Nicely put: if you look at the scientific answer, for example, you will miss the truth. If you practise looking for it, you will see the truth more and more easily. Like watching "The Sixth Sense", "Vanilla Sky", "Memento", or "The Others" three or four times.

Archetypes are types of a thing - they are not the thing. If you don't study them, learn from them or look for them, they will just pass you by as another puzzling parable...

 

Neshusta wrote

“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of thing Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic—on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg—or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.” C.S Lewis

And wouldn’t you know this “liar” was raised from the dead. Go figure.

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M*W wrote

Thank you for your response, M*W, but there are more than 300 prophecies Jesus fulfilled during His lifetime. One of them is prophesied in Daniel 9:25, 26. According to the verse, the specific timeline of the appearance of the Messiah is after the rebuilding, and before the destruction, of Jerusalem and the temple. The destruction occurred in 70 AD.
Plus the Old Testament gives a clear outline as to who, what, where and how the Messiah will appear.
Go to the following websites for more.

http://www.yeshuatyisrael.com/moshiach.htm

http://www.jesusplusnothing.com/messiah/messiah.htm

 

M*W is actually right on this one! The anointed one in this passage refers to Cyrus. As I remember it, Isaiah says "my anointed one", Cyrus will free you and you will build the temple. The dream that Cyrus had is documented somewhere but supposively the God of Isreal appeared to him.