Alabama Accident: Dad Shoots Self, Son Shoots Mom

Responsible Gun Ownership Redux
Anyone is a responsible gun owner until they aren't

See also: "Four year-old shoots mother after dad gives him live ammunition"​

Nobody died, which is the good news. But it also means we can't file this story as a Darwin Award nomination. The story, from Bay Minette, Alabama:

The Baldwin County Sheriff's Office said a small child accidentally shot his mother, after finding the gun near his injured father's side.

Around 9:00 p.m. the BCSO was alerted of the shooting at 4621 old Carney Road in Bay Minette. When they arrived to the home they found Allen and Aleisha Jones injured by gunshot.

The couples two small children were at the residence when the incident happened. Their daughter was upstairs asleep at the time of the incident.

When questioned by authorities, Mr. Jones stated he had taken his Glock .40 handgun from the glove compartment of his truck. He was walking to the house when he tripped and fell, then accidentally shot himself in the leg just above the knee.

Jones yelled to his wife for help. Aleisha was upstairs bathing their young son when she heard her husband's call for help. When she arrived on the screened porch, she tried to secure the gun but her son beat her to the gun.

After attempting to take the gun from the child, a round was fired. Aleisha was hit in the left side of her neck.

(Local 15)​

I ... don't know where to start. No, really.

Perhaps I might search the archives for the firearm advocate who tried to convince me that guns can't go off accidentally. Not that I would hold all gun advocates to that point, but one wonders in consideration of such an assertion how poorly Mr. Jones handled his Glock.

Still, though, setting that aside and dealing with what we have here, just how does this work? Dad shoots himself in the leg by accident. Mom is upstairs bathing the child, and hears her husband calling for help.

Apparently, she did not hear the gunshot.

Still, though, her son, who was last seen in the bath, manages to reach the handgun first.

Mom tries to take the gun from the child, resulting in a second accidental discharge that strikes her in the neck.

How does that even work?

Glocks (.40 caliber) generally demand a standard 5.5 lb. trigger pull. That strikes me as curious in light of the old assertion that guns cannot discharge accidentally. Someone, please, disabuse me of this notion; or else explain, please, how five and a half pounds of pressure could accidentally be applied to the trigger resulting in Mr. Jones' injury.

I won't bother trying to theorize how the child beat the mother to the gun.

This has to be one of the dumbest firearm accidents in history. Well, this or the time the French army accidentally used live ammunition during a public relations event, injuring seventeen. Or perhaps the time the U.S. Navy accidentally fired an M240 into Gdynia, Poland, while the gun was being cleaned.

Comparatively, though, I can't call the self-injury of an idiot who tried to shoot buckshot out of a .22 revolver—in order to kill bees—and ended up shooting himself in the left hand an accident. Nor the moron who shot himself in the face in order to prove the gun was not loaded.

As Goldy puts it: "Because nothing makes you safer than keeping a gun in your home".

What the hell?
____________________

Notes:

Local 15. "Mother Accidentally Shot by Son, Father also Injured". February 27, 2011. Local15TV.com. March 1, 2011. http://www.local15tv.com/news/local...y-Son-Father-also/23xOSWIZ0EqIn9LjZ7qqqA.cspx

Goldstein, David. "Because Nothing Makes You Safer Than Keeping a Gun in Your Home". Slog. February 28, 2011. Slog.TheStranger.com. March 1, 2011. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/ar...kes-you-safer-than-keeping-a-gun-in-your-home

 

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umm, it cant be a darwin award though because they have already procreated

 

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Kids can be pretty fast. It sounds like the father is a complete idiot. One, there is this thing called a "safety" on every handgun that is designed specifically to prevent accidental discharges. And the safety should always be on unless and until you are going to shoot something.

Additionally, people have been know to modify triggers so that it triggers require much less pressure to fire a round.

And finally if you are going to have guns around there is no excuse for not teaching your kids to fear them and respect them.

 

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This and That

Goldy, in that same blog post, noted, "Natural selection in action, Alabama style".

I disagree, since nobody actually died, but his point is well taken.

Not especially crass at this time. Do you remember the breakfast machine?

See, part of the justification for Peter Griffin is that he is, indeed, one of the stupidest people in America. Somewhere in the DVD director's commentary (I think for "When You Wish Upon a Weinstein", a.k.a., "the Jewish episode", "the banned episode"), Seth MacFarlane explains that FOX executives missed that point when they yanked the episode before broadcast. Anyone who thinks Peter Griffin should be emulated has completely missed the point. Don't get me wrong, that does spell all manner of ludicrous artistic license, like the time he asks Lois if she's pregnant, and when she says no he throws her down the basement stairs. While such conduct is obviously wrong, and even horrifying, when I saw it the first time it was one of the funniest things I'd ever seen—in part for its blatance.

But I think there is a legitimate social issue to consider when real people are aiming (ha!) to outdo Peter Griffin.

• • •​

Normally, I would split that up, but since one and three go together, in a way ... er, nevermind.

Anyway, yeah, there comes a point when a hair trigger is ridiculous. Because, hey, it already takes less force to discharge a firearm than it does to crush a person's throat by hand. And, you know, that's just asking too much of a responsible gun owner. Rather, it should be as easy as clicking a cheap ball-point pen.

And, admittedly, I can never figure out what the phrase "responsible gun owner" means. Functionally, as near as I can tell, everyone who owns a gun is a responsible gun owner until they aren't.

Regarding children, yeah, they can be blazing fast. And while I can't speak to the Jones family's disciplinary policies, I can say from experience that I know damn well how to stop my kid in her tracks.

Interestingly, people have often told me not to yell, yet even on an occasion that such an incident was coincidentally recorded, it turns out my long suspicion is correct: I'm not yelling.

Backstory: When I was in high school, I dated a Quaker. I know that sounds irrelevant, but she and I spoke very quietly. Adding any deliberate stress to one's words, as people often do, somehow equated unnecessary anger. Over time, I came to speak very quietly unless deliberately projecting for some manner of public speech.

Curiously, the same people who tell me to speak up are also the ones who tell me not to yell when I do.

Reality: When I yell, I roar. You can hear me in the next county, so to speak.

I have officially yelled at my daughter twice that I recall over the course of eight years. Both occasions have been in the last year. The first time she was beating the hell out of me in a tantrum. The second time, she was taking swings at my mother. Didn't have to spank her. Didn't have to slap her around. The first time, I used her full name and roared, "I have had enough!" And that won immediate compliance. The second time, I simply used her full name. And, yes, that achieved its purpose.

Setting aside that my daughter would be automatically terrified of a firearm simply for the noise it just made, and thus wouldn't even begin to think to pick it up, yes, I could certainly prevent her from reaching the gun first. It would probably require only one word: "Stop!"

Indeed, had I managed to just shoot myself, two words—and not yelled, at that—would most likely be sufficient to stop her from touching the gun: "Do not!"

She knows when I'm angry. She knows when she's crossed a line. And she knows when she's approaching one. If I expect any adverse reaction to such instruction, she would probably get angry and stomp off to her room, leaving me bleeding in the driveway.

I cannot responsibly speculate why the mother was not able to interrupt the child's course.

Although I will speculate, in consideration of safeties (a Glock features three safeties and a Safe Action System that is supposed to automatically secure the weapon after the trigger is released) and the teaching of children, that Mr. Jones probably considered himself a "responsible gun owner". I would not be surprised if he still does.

Because, you know, one is a responsible gun owner until he isn't, and there are no accidents until an accident happens.
____________________

Notes:

Goldstein, David. "Because Nothing Makes You Safer Than Keeping a Gun in Your Home". Slog. February 28, 2011. Slog.TheStranger.com. March 1, 2011. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/ar...kes-you-safer-than-keeping-a-gun-in-your-home

U.S. Glock. "Glock 23 Handgun". (n.d.) USGlock.com. March 1, 2011. http://www.usglock.com/index_files/glock23.htm

Glock, Inc. "Glock Advantage". (n.d.) Glock.com. March 1, 2011. http://www.glock.com/english/pistols_adv01.htm

 

Sheesh. Likely story.

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Sorry but I don't believe it.

Why couldn't the husband secure the gun? They say the gun was at his side. He was conscious enough to call for his wife's help so we know he was conscious, how else would anyone know the firearm was 'by his side'. If the gun was at his side and he was conscious then how did he let little four year old johnny take the gun away from his side? What kind of a Glock was it? Glocks have a drop safety feature which prevents unintentional misfire if its dropped. Why was he shot by a firearm that has this feature? I think the story has holes.

 

Okay the article says it was a Glock 40. Here are some of the safety features of a Glock 40"

"Safe Action" Trigger System: A partly-tensioned firing pin lock that moves further back by the trigger bar when the trigger is pulled.

Firing Pin Safety: A solid hardened steel pin which, in the secured state, blocks the firing pin channel, rendering the igniting of a chambered cartridge by the firing pin impossible.

Drop Safety: Prevents unintentional firing of a shot through hard impact, or when the Glock pistol is dropped.

Psychology: Glock offers one simple psychological safety feature, finger away from trigger safety on, finger on trigger, safety off.

http://www.glockworld.com/category/870-Glock_40sw.aspx


It has a drop safety feature. I mean the father may be an idiot but gun manufacturers are not.

 

You are right, there are other issues there as well...dicipline being one of them.

I grew up on a farm. And most farmers have guns, lots of guns. It was no different with my family. And I grew up in an era where it was common to see cowboys and indians shoot each other on TV.

But my father was very clear about guns...they are always dangerous. There is no such thing as a safe gun. He also taught us that the most dangerous gun is an unloaded gun because it just might not be unloaded. He also taught us responsiblity. He ingrained the idea in us that we were always responsible for the bullet, from the time it entered the chamber and until it came to rest...no shooting into bushes or at things you can not clearly identify and only when safe to do so.

Thus far my brothers and I have been responsible gun owners. I hope we continue to be so. Guns are inherently dangerous. There is no such thing as a safe gun.

This guy was just blatently dumb. He did not use his safeties. And what the hell is he doing carrying a loaded gun around anyway? There is no need.
I don't have weapons for self defense. Unless one lives in a rural area, there really is no need for guns for self defense in my view. Whe people use them for self defense, I think they can cause more trouble than they are worth. I have guns for recreation. Shooting stuff can be fun - kinda like a big firecracker.

And the guy freeked when he shot himself. Generally, a shot in the leg is not going to kill. He should have engaged and secured his gun after shooting himself. The guy is a nitwit (hopefully not a member of sciforums). Unfortunately we have far too many people out there like him bearing guns and in my book they have no business being any where near a fire arm.

 

Logistical considerations aside, I'd like to know the emotional state and temperament of the child-- note: "After attempting to take the gun from the child, a round was fired." "After"? Not "while"? So she just gave up, perhaps after realizing that her son was quite determined to blow her away?

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And that's not even the weirdest part of the story. She is bathing little johnny and her husband calls to her. Evidently she didn't hear the gun fire but she does hear him call. She must have taken little johnny out of the tub but he DASHES past her all wet and soapy down the stairs and beats her to the gun. I would really love to know the size of the woman that she could have taken her four year old out of the tub but he's still the one who beat her down the stairs. I mean really? Seriously?

 

There is nothing in the story that precludes her from drying the child first. Nor does it say what stage of bathing the child was in at the time the husband made the call.

 

The bathing is not the point.

 

Hot Lead and Paper Dolls

Yeah, in my admittedly variant outlook that views everything in the context of a story, I simply cannot make this whole scene work.

Did Mom freeze? That is perhaps the most likely explanation, but we don't really know. If she just stood there, horrified, the child wouldn't even have to run.

Yet I just can't make it work in quick-time. There has to be some critical psychological moment, a broken response, that slowed her.

Still, though, I'm stuck trying to blind out this scene of a possibly dripping, possibly naked little boy shooting his mother in the neck.

Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction must eventually make some manner of sense. I cannot construct this scene without reducing this woman to an emotionally frail pretense.

And if the boy is dripping wet, consider Parmalee's question. That's the difference between after and while. Them's slipp'ry li'l buggers when they's all wet like that.

I mean, if I write it like the comedy (contemporary definition) in my head, it's simply not funny because it's so unbelievable as to seem exploitative.

If I write it as a horror scene, the people become paper doll archetypes.

But there is no context of realist that I can usefully grab hold of in this one.

 

@Tiassa

I know what you mean. I keep trying to picture how he was lying and where the firearm was in relation to his body. It says that the Glock was by his side, in which case he could have secured it in hand even if the child arrived before the mother did.

And what is it about their situation that they couldn't have simply told him to put it down. Surely the shock of finding his father hurt and his mother upset would have been a jolt even at the age of four. I don't know there is something skewed about the story. Maybe the four year old is taking the rap for some other weird domestic situation. But who knows strange things happen. There are a lot of unanswered questions.

 

Hmm...

Whenever I take my gun anywhere in the car-on those rare occasions when I feel well-off enough to go blow $20 at the range...the barrel's not just unloaded, I've got a padlock on the frame where it would lock into place.

The semiauto equivalent here would be the magazine is out, and you've both worked the slide a few times and left the chamber open and the safety's on as well.

I know of someone who had a cheap semiauto that he dropped...and it went off accidentally. It had been really badly maintained, was a piece of junk to start with, and was being handled by a pill-addled moron at the time-yes, that's the one I know, my brother's friend.

Darwin award waiting to happen right there...

I would be for having to take a basic safety class to buy a gun, provided it was affordable for poor people...who may need a gun to defend themselves from other poor people more than the well-off need a gun for self-defense.

(Sociological data says the majority of criminals rob in their own neighborhood. Probably because they don't want to get busted in Mom's car...:bugeye

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*spews tea*

 

Something, something, Burt Ward

I try not to dwell on this consideration, and thus submit: I have never been shot. The nearest to, someone discharged a full magazine from a 9mm with a seemingly eternal number of rounds in my general direction, for reasons wholly unbeknownst to my friends or me. We had no idea who, and no idea why. It is likely the simple notion that we accidentally disrupted a planned event, such as a drug deal. And ...

Er, sorry. Point being, yes, I can imagine that he would be able to secure the weapon, but, to the other, I've never been shot.

I have no idea what his cognitive state is in the minutes after the event.

Nary a clue, m'lady.

That part I can cope with. I mean, let's go ahead and acknowledge up front that often our disclaimers reveal certain dimensions about our priorities. I disclaimed discipline.

Hypothetically speaking, the outcome is perhaps possible if ...

• ... the boy is accustomed to physical discipline, and thus nothing short of will work;
• ... the mother chose a physical remedy, e.g., trying to restrain or remove the weapon instead of communicating with the child;
• ... and she missed, such as if she attempted to grab the boy instead of the gun—perhaps he squeezed the trigger accidentally and reflexively, or she failed to grab hold of him and as he moved away or recovered his balance, discharged the weapon.​

But that relies an a presumption of a magnitude I believe we should be uncomfortable with. I mean, sure, if it was an episode of NCIS, but it's not. Because, you know, on TV, the idiot-simple gut instinct is always ... er ... um ... yeah.

Anyway, something, something, Burt Ward.

To be honest, I'm reluctant to indict these folks specifically because I'm so hard on (A) gun owners, and (B) Southerners. The whole thing just reeks of something beyond idiocy. Retardation, even.

I can't just go with that, can I? They're people, not cardboard cutout stereotypes.

But this is fucking insane. I ... I ... I ... um ... er .... yeah.

 

(Thpbpbpbpbpbpbpbpb!)

Aw, come on, mate. Can't I even do a good news/bad news bit now and then?

Or have I used that cliché to death?

:m:

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@Tiassa

Don't you think a story like this warrants a visit from child protective services? I mean, I'm just saying.

 

Bells gross stupidity is neglect which is a crime

Filter to secure a loaded firearm SHOULD be a crime if its not currently