Star Wars vs Star Trek

Half of it are in Video games not comics. How about their lightsabers and light whip? And they can deflect or absorb phaser shots

 

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which are of equally non-cannon status.

Light whip? seriously? what is this flash gordon

anyway wide beam kill should take care of any light saber wielders

 

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I leave for a few days for a vacation, and look what happens! This place goes to hell.


Yes, there are light whips.

And the Federation have used Wide-beam spread on groups of enemies a lot, haven't they? Wrong.

 

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whether or not it is a frequently seen ability it has been demonstrated on screen, and referred to several other times

 

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

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good enough? now show me a lightwhip

 

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The first one is from a comic book, and the two others are from covers of books.

 

Events in comic books are admissable but according to Luscasfilm the stats alike this are not which is why it's considered lesser canon.

And...Cody?
I can't believe you're arguing on these basis. Comic books? Skywalker Jedi, Video games? Come on. You guys should know better than this. This is grand standing.
How can you not know a phaser has multiple spread settings. It's the most versatile wepon in Trek and Sci Fi next to the Sonic Screwdriver.

Look up G2k's Star Trek Star Wars Tech assesment and become acquainted with some things..It's a quick way to learn alot on Trek.

 

I know a lot about Trek. I've explored Memory Alpha, and I knew that some people said the Phasers had a wide spread. I just wanted proof.

Knowing you, 'G2k's Star Trek Star Wars Tech assessment' is probably biased in Trek's favor.

 

Well, since this is the GE, they likely would. Remember, Palpy likes controlling things. And in any case, it doesn't matter. OP declares they are at war, so the reason could be over hating the others uniforms for all I care.

Really? Let's examine that.

According to the Daystrom Institute, a Romulan Warbird's Disruptor canon has an output of 78,047 TW. Let's assume that's equal to the Enterprise D's longest array. Now, we know that the Enterprise D also has 933 elements on its main array. That means that each one gives out a yield of 83.65166131 TW. Now, assuming I don't suck at remembering, 4,180 TW = 1 megaton. So that means that's 18.6 MT, which is a fair amount. Now, take that 83.6, and round it to 84 TW per element.

Main Dorsal Saucer (Arrays: 1)
Elements: 933 Output:18.6 MT

Small Dorsal Saucer (Arrays: 2)
Elements: 23 Output: 0.46 MT each (0.92 for both)

Small Dorsal Engineering (2)
Elements: 18 Output: 0.36 MT (0.72 for both)

Small Ventral Engineering (2)
Elements: 18 Output: 0.36 MT (0.72)

Lateral Pylon (2)
Elements: 46 Output: 0.92 MT (1.85)

Main Ventral Engineering (1)
Elements: 107 Output: 2.15 MT

Ventral Saucer (1)
Elements: 737 Output: 14.81 MT

Dorsal neck (1)
Elements: 163 Output: 3.28 MT

Total Phaser Array Output: 43.21 MT

Now, add that to ten photons (forward and aft launchers), and the Enterprise D can spit out about 863 megatons with every phaser arrays, and all launchers firing.

Ket's take a look at an ISD again:

87.679 megatons total.

An ISD would need at least 9.8 volleys in order to match what a Galaxy class starship can do in one. The Galaxy is nearly ten times stronger than your own ship.

No, they DO have better fighters.

True.

A good point, but the problem is that the Empire needs to know where they are going. And even if we assume that they do, well, let me quote the Doctor here:

"It is defended!"

DS9 alone is strong enough to easily repel a small invasion force, and had 5,000 photon torpedoes.

Earth would not only have at least one station, but also ground weaponry, which would at least match, if not surpass that of DS9's defenses, not to mention a planetary shield far greater than the Enterprise D's which has a 1,291.87 MT level shield grid, (as proven in Relics, where they withstand the energy of star at close range for hours with shields at 27%). At least 15 volleys to take down the Planetary shields (unlikely, more likely to take a 150 considering the fact that Earth would have a stronger shield).

Your run and hits would end up being run and die. Taking the fleet size of even 12 ISDs would prove to be easily devistated by two or three UFP ships in less than five minutes.

 

Um, no. C-Canon and lower is only canon within EU, otherwise it is worthless.

 

The Organians did not stop the Dominion War and are not mentioned at all after TOS.

 

Um, no. An ISD's light guns are in excess of 200 Gigatons. Where did you get that small number.

No, the Empire has better fighters. Given that a cap ship's shields are own, 4-8 squadrons of bombers can destroy a moderate-sized ship. But, in Trek, the shields are so weak compared to what the fighters are used to, a Fighter swarm could destroy the whole UFP.

"DS9 alone is strong enough to easily repel a small invasion force, and had 5,000 photon torpedoes."

A small invasion force of TREK ships. A single ISD, no, a single ANTI-FIGHTER frigate could destroy DS9.

Earth has defenses other than ships? I have seen no proof. Especially in First Contact; just 15 ships are attacking the Cube. (Although the battle has gone on for a long time; a lot could have been destroyed.)

 

Excuse me, but one Heavy Turbolaser is 12.5 gigatons or 12,500 megatons. An ISD mounts reagualt turbo lasers which are 70% as powerful or 8.75 gigatons or 8750 megatons or over ten times as powerful as the total output of the Enterprise D. An ISD has 60 of these guns giving it over 600 times the firepower of the Enterprise D.

If you are going to post stuff at least post to canon.

Actually optical telescopis and probe droids are more than enough to plot courses with Hyperdrives.

5000 photon torpedoes would be a threat if launched simultaneously. However the bas can't fire them in large enough numbers to be a threat to a Correlian Corvette let along a ISD.

Actually there has never been a plentary shield generator mentioned for any federation world. And even a 1,291.87 MT shield grid would be utterly destroyed by the Millenium Falcon's guns, let alone and actual invasion force.

Oh and in Relic, 27% was only enough to protect the ship form lethal radiation at .5 AU from a unstable star.

Now I now your smoking some good stuff. ISD have the fire power hundreds of UFP ships, better shielding and better design. Their only deficiency is tactical speed. Then again they don't need it.

 

That 200 gg number is based off Saxton's calcs from ICS, which is non-canon:

Interview with George Lucas: http://www.starwars.com/theclonewars/news/news20080317.html

...You're kidding right?:bugeye:

Proton torpedoes have the yield of a fucking hand gernade in Phantom Menace when Anakin blows up their shield generator, which was stupidly located in the hanger bay.

Thus far, an ISD has only displayed the ability to vaporize a 20 meter asteroid in the Empire Strikes Back. In order to do that, you just need 59.9 kilotons.

Indeed they do, and it was noted that Planetary Defenses responded against the Cube in BoBW. We are also given mention of the orbital defense system in Paradise Lost.

Most likely, and we see that the Cardassians have them, which were armed with disruptors and plasma torpedoes. Granted, the UFP ones would be only armed iwht photons and phasers. Remember that the Enterprise E was late.

 

Oh and a note of wide beam phasers. They are genrally used only against large groups or structures. the typical Federation secuirity guard is gonna use narrow beams as that is how he is trained. The wide beams he will use only if he is ordered to and since the officers would have no clue until after the first deflection, the order would not be given.

Even then the jedi always send the best way to defend themselves versus a enemy they know is hostile. Order 616 worked becuase the jedi's situation awareness was already taken up by present enemies. A jedi may dodge, duck, somersault or even use the force to reposition the gun without thinking about it.

 

yeah, i though of that... i was thinking more of something like lure the sw forces into attacking the organinan home world... which seems to be what made them stop the federation-Klingon world, yeah it's a stretch, but it's possible.

 

TW Scott, thank you for the help, but are you using your deducted numbers are the canon ones? All logic screams not the canon ones.

"That 200 gg number is based off Saxton's calcs from ICS, which is non-canon:

Interview with George Lucas: http://www.starwars.com/theclonewars...s20080317.html"

No, The ICS is canon; don't tell me you listen to DarkStar.

"...You're kidding right?

Proton torpedoes have the yield of a fucking hand gernade in Phantom Menace when Anakin blows up their shield generator, which was stupidly located in the hanger bay."

Grenade, you simpleton. Spell right if you are to debate with me. Also, you are wrong. Proton torpedoes split protons on the atomic level. They have a higher fucking payload than a hand grenade.

Well, Trade Fed are stupid designers. Notice the Battle droids in Ep 1?

"Indeed they do, and it was noted that Planetary Defenses responded against the Cube in BoBW. We are also given mention of the orbital defense system in Paradise Lost."

Well, the Feds must hate to use them during First Contact.

 

most reasonable explanation is the borg already took them out.

 

Um, excuse me:

http://www.starwars.com/theclonewars...s20080317.html

I thought I already posted this once for you, although I could have been wrong.

I do, how about you do the same?

Except the only probe we see was launched towards Hoth from just outside the system...the probe would take a good long time to reach earth, or any UFP instalation, and that's assuming the UFP didn't intercept it before it could send back coordinates.

Acutally, I just proved that they could.

Bullshit, in Whom God's Destroy, a penial colony had a planetary shield, and even if it was only a theater shield, such things could be played over the entire surface of the planet by individual networks.

Yes, I relaize that. However, being near a star tends to put out a great deal of energy.

Really? Is that why in every debate we get in, you push forward a few claims, I debunk them, and then you run screaming out of here? What is this, round four or five? I've lost count.