Beyond Comprehension

[Medicine*Woman]

If we find the soul exists, that is no indication of gods.

*************
M*W: Yes, that's right. I just tried to explain my opinion in my reply to PsychoticEpisode.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Not certain why this comes to mind. Most people who experience NDEs report being told we're here to learn but they're also told that spiritual realm is nothing but peace, love & joy. Now I'm not saying whether the perception of that experience is valid but I have to wonder. WHAT are we here to learn??? How to be selfish, fearful, nasty & mean?

[PsychoticEpisode]

I can't say I can relate to you.

I suppose you are just being true to your screen name.

They say that trying to make sense of insanity would make one insane, too.

Greenberg, all I can say is ..... this is the friggin' internet, not the real world. Do you really believe the persona I carry on this forum is the true me?

Insults are pointless. You can't insult me. Any insult, derogatory comment, snide remark or condescending language directed at someone is intended to show everyone else who reads it that you are at minimum, intellectually superior than the target. I see through this thin veil but I do it too (I try it for humor).

I've adopted the psychotic approach as an experiment. I couldn't act psychotic in the real world if I tried. What am I testing? Now I can't give that away because I need to keep it kind of hush hush for now. Then again, maybe I am psycho.

[PsychoticEpisode]

*************
M*W: Your post was interesting. I think all living things have an energy field, a biophysical energy that I believe leaves the body upon death. I'm not calling it a soul, but I believe what people call a soul is just this energy.

Thanks MW, all I was trying to say is that for us, things can only happen in this world or reality. There is no need to bring in Creatures or powers from some other reality no one can prove exists. I can understand early civilized man doing so but today I can't understand why people still need this unnatural realm. It boggles my mind.

[Carico]

Fear is the root of evil.

"Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." So all those who don't fear God suffer for eternity. But that's their choice.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

How do you love, feel loved by, trust, worship & rely on someone you fear?
You do not know what is & isn't my choice.

[swarm]

XPsyrixX: The problem is that you cannot prove God, but God cannot be disproven

There is nothing to disprove.

Just as there is nothing to disprove about unicorns, tooth fairies, Santa Claus, etc.

Just try it on for size. Disprove that Santa Claus ate your god.

Can't do it? Ooo, must be true! Too bad.

[swarm]

OK. enough beating around the bush. The question is simply "is it moral to punish children for the transgression of their fathers [in making god jealous] even down to the forth generation as god does here:

Exodus 34:7 - Yet He does not leave the guilty unpunished; He punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.

and here:

Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them [idols], for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me

and here:

Num 14:18 The Lord is slow to wrath and great in mercy, overlooking wrongdoing and evil, and will not let wrongdoers go free; sending punishment on children for the sins of their fathers, to the third and fourth generation.

So is that moral and good? what would you think if some one did that to your children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and great-great grandchildren.

Are you ok with it? Does it seem fair?

[Simon Anders]

"Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." So all those who don't fear God suffer for eternity. But that's their choice.

It will really be a breath of fresh air when your type of smug theist stops trying to make other people feel bad.

[Carico]

How do you love, feel loved by, trust, worship & rely on someone you fear?
You do not know what is & isn't my choice.

Well, let's see, you can deny God and go to hell or you can accept Christ's forgiveness and go to heaven. So even though you are powerless to make that choice, it will be made for you one way or the other because you will either go to heaven or hell. It's that simple.

[greenberg]

It will really be a breath of fresh air when your type of smug theist stops trying to make other people feel bad.

I can relate ...

Really, the way some theists preach is to the effect of telling a beggar "Well, go buy yourself a villa and a private jet and half a dozen fancy cars! What, you won't? Too bad, your choice ..."
It's frustrating.

There is a saying - "People come into our lives for a reason, a season, or for a lifetime." So seen that way, perhaps those theists come into our life for a reason - for example, for us to work out a rational argument against blind faith.

[jb21]

you want to live from the illusion of being above another, so you are saying that you would tell another that he should accept god as his boss, and you would accept that the other would make doubt about your perfection, that is the share of power you accept to let him answering you

what if you just love your god without caring of others and yourself being ? love is presupposes that you are over being as existing, what do you care for telling others knowing better instead of living better ?

[lightgigantic]

That is a standard assumption....the philosophy of there's got to be more to life than this. If you believe it then you are gravely mistaken.

if you are satisfied with mortality (or perhaps more likely, fail to properly recognize the inevitability of it) you are insane

I look at a simple gnat not knowing if it possesses a mind. If it does then I can't comprehend it, can you? A gnat's mind and God's are both incomprehensible from a human perspective you might say. Could a gnat and God be the same thing? If not, why not?

one way to know a said phenomena (like say "mind") is to know it by it's symptoms - if you don't know whether a gnat has a mind or not, and whether god would be in the same category, that simply indicates a poor fund of knowledge on your behalf

[PsychoticEpisode]

if you are satisfied with mortality (or perhaps more likely, fail to properly recognize the inevitability of it) you are insane

I am satisfied that whatever happens upon my death will not resemble anything that is proclaimed in any religious text anywhere. But if you think the text contains the absolute truth then you are not only insane but you have wagered an entire life on it, a complete and utter waste. Wasting your life away chasing rainbows is the real sin.

one way to know a said phenomena (like say "mind") is to know it by it's symptoms - if you don't know whether a gnat has a mind or not, and whether god would be in the same category, that simply indicates a poor fund of knowledge on your behalf

So by the preponderance of evidence, a gnat has no mind? The same circumstantial evidence that says God exists I suppose. The 'I guess it must be so because I'm human with a self conscious brain' syndrome.

[lightgigantic]

psychotic episode

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
if you are satisfied with mortality (or perhaps more likely, fail to properly recognize the inevitability of it) you are insane
”
I am satisfied that whatever happens upon my death will not resemble anything that is proclaimed in any religious text anywhere.

given that you are unlikely to be familiar with all religious texts anywhere, it seems you are talking about a chip you have on your shoulder

But if you think the text contains the absolute truth then you are not only insane but you have wagered an entire life on it, a complete and utter waste. Wasting your life away chasing rainbows is the real sin.

ascribing eternal values to temporal objects is a waste of time

“
one way to know a said phenomena (like say "mind") is to know it by it's symptoms - if you don't know whether a gnat has a mind or not, and whether god would be in the same category, that simply indicates a poor fund of knowledge on your behalf
”
So by the preponderance of evidence, a gnat has no mind?

what on earth makes you say that?

The same circumstantial evidence that says God exists I suppose. The 'I guess it must be so because I'm human with a self conscious brain' syndrome.

[PsychoticEpisode]

given that you are unlikely to be familiar with all religious texts anywhere, it seems you are talking about a chip you have on your shoulder

There you go again, religious text, religious text...deja vu all over again. Honestly, do you have them taped to your forehead? This is not an argument for you, no argument is. You demonstrate time and time again that you wish to display that which you know of religious texts. Can you offer me a tidbit without stroking your ego?*

*(Note to Greenberg, no more lectures please)

ascribing eternal values to temporal objects is a waste of time

I'm in one reality...you appear to believe there are several. It's the only way it can work for you. M theory.... God style.

what on earth makes you say that?

Seems so apropos for you to say that. You even ask questions like your sitting with God in His other wordly dimension (spooky)

Let's say a gnat has a mind. My little gnat doesn't dictate his thoughts to a waiting scribe thus making its mind beyond our comprehension. God has penned His thoughts, right there for everyone to see, yet He is also beyond comprehension. God could very well be that little gnat.

[lightgigantic]

Psychotic episode

Originally Posted by lightgigantic
given that you are unlikely to be familiar with all religious texts anywhere, it seems you are talking about a chip you have on your shoulder
”
There you go again, religious text, religious text...deja vu all over again. Honestly, do you have them taped to your forehead? This is not an argument for you, no argument is. You demonstrate time and time again that you wish to display that which you know of religious texts. Can you offer me a tidbit without stroking your ego?*

its quite simple

1. you said you are confident that after death you will not have an experience as dictated by any scripture anywhere
2. I indicated that you are not even close to being familiar with scripture

well?

“
ascribing eternal values to temporal objects is a waste of time
”
I'm in one reality

hardly
we yearn for life, pledge words of eternity, are spontaneously drawn to the persistent and over arching principle of anything ..... yet our molars rot

“
what on earth makes you say that?
”
Seems so apropos for you to say that. You even ask questions like your sitting with God in His other wordly dimension (spooky)

I guess it's one of the luxuries of approaching scripture without a chip on one's shoulder

Let's say a gnat has a mind. My little gnat doesn't dictate his thoughts to a waiting scribe thus making its mind beyond our comprehension. God has penned His thoughts, right there for everyone to see, yet He is also beyond comprehension. God could very well be that little gnat.

I see

Kind of like there is water in the ocean and there is water in my hand basin. Since there are no octopuses, whales, sharks, fish or crustaceans in my hand basin, it is evidence that all those books about the ocean explaining how it is brimming with such things are obviously false. (You would have thought they could have at least mentioned about the plug at the bottom of the ocean, which, when removed, will drain the whole lot .....)

[PsychoticEpisode]

[QUOTE=lightgigantic;2042000]Psychotic episode


its quite simple

1. you said you are confident that after death you will not have an experience as dictated by any scripture anywhere
2. I indicated that you are not even close to being familiar with scripture

well?
/QUOTE]

Yes it is simple, I don't think as highly of scripture as you do. I could read a thousand pages of it and not be impressed. What's your point?

I guess it's one of the luxuries of approaching scripture without a chip on one's shoulder

I want you to keep that thought. Whether its true or not I'll let you decide. Sound familiar?

Kind of like there is water in the ocean and there is water in my hand basin. Since there are no octopuses, whales, sharks, fish or crustaceans in my hand basin, it is evidence that all those books about the ocean explaining how it is brimming with such things are obviously false. (You would have thought they could have at least mentioned about the plug at the bottom of the ocean, which, when removed, will drain the whole lot .....)

Lame...on 2nd thought...stick to scriptures...YOWZA!

[swarm]

I must admit I'm bemuzed by people who wave their favorite bronze age myths around as if therein is to be found answers which we cannot find for ourselves.

Those people had no special insight we lack and lack a significant amount of information we have.

Most of us gave up using myths centuries ago because we found better ways to understand the reality around us.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

How do you love, feel loved by, trust, worship & rely on someone you fear?
You do not know what is & isn't my choice.

Well, let's see, you can deny God and go to hell or you can accept Christ's forgiveness and go to heaven. So even though you are powerless to make that choice, it will be made for you one way or the other because you will either go to heaven or hell. It's that simple.

Absurd blathering for the 2nd question. Not even that for the 1st.

Do you preach to animals?