11-12-08, 11:48 AM #441
11-12-08, 02:18 PM #442
Somebody who doesn't know if there is a God is not necessarily without God or Godless.
Consider an example of a box. It is given that the box either has a ball in it or is empty. Say there is somebody that doesn't know if there is a ball in it or if it is empty. Because you do not hold the position that there is a ball in the box, does that mean that you automatically fall under a state of being that the box is empty. In the same way, one who does not know if there is a God out there does not automatically fall in the state of being Godless. They simply do not know.
11-12-08, 04:37 PM #443
11-12-08, 05:04 PM #444
11-12-08, 05:10 PM #445
11-12-08, 05:13 PM #446
11-12-08, 05:19 PM #447
You have therefore realized the same thing as me, that your position, as a theist, is defenseless, and that the only defense you could possibly muster is one from blind faith.
My position has nothing at all to do with yours, no matter how much you'd like to believe in such nonsense.
11-12-08, 05:33 PM #448
I have no idea were you get the sense that they are teaming.. but perhaps it is because they all argue against the same accusation.
It seems to me however that the atheist regulars in the will generally look the other way when theists make absurd arguments or generalize wildly about theists or engage in ad homs, etc.
That is what I meant by team.
JDawg was a welcome exception to this.
I somewhat agree with Q on this though.
Non-believers have been (mor.e than) discriminated against throughout history by believers. Burning of heretics and stuff Also believers haven't been particularly nice to each other. The same sentiments still exist today albeit diluted.
Believers have always been the ones to say "my team is right, and your team is wrong/evil", not non-believers.
Now the tables are slowly turning. See it as a revolution
11-12-08, 05:36 PM #449
There is a thread somewhere on who kills teh most atheists. Surprisingly, there was a paucity of killers presented.
11-12-08, 05:36 PM #450
11-12-08, 05:37 PM #451
11-12-08, 05:39 PM #452
The difference between atheism and theism is that one is learned through experience and the other is innate, or produced from the mind rather than experience. Now this doesn't mean one mind is sharper than the other. What is does mean is that atheists take what they've learned from real life experience and then apply logic to it whereas theistic logic is applied to what their minds have constructed.
Now it must be decided as to which carries more weight. For people who believe the mind is the ultimate difference maker that sets us apart from other creatures then it is easy to see how one might consider the mind as a more powerful advent than any commonplace activity.
11-12-08, 05:41 PM #453
It's bad science. And I can't believe you put me in the position of having to point this out. Run your theory about demonstrating non-existence past some scientists.
11-12-08, 05:43 PM #454
You don't test to prove in science, its bad science to have a conclusion before a test. You test to disprove the null hypothesis.
11-12-08, 05:45 PM #455
11-12-08, 05:48 PM #456
11-12-08, 05:58 PM #457
Any thing or phenomenon not yet seen, or only seen by some, cannot be said to have its nonexistence demonstrated by its not being seen, yet, by the main community. You can speak about its existence not being supported, yet. But you cannot say it's nonexistence has been demonstrated. Well, of course you can, but it is poor science and poor philosophy.
It's not bad science at all. Gods are tested for their existence with the results being null 100% if the time, observed unanimously. Case closed.
Also I notice how you changed it to tested for its existence, rather than your previous demonstrations of nonexistence. Again you are being cagey.
But then, Q, if their non-existence has been demonstrated
why are you reluctant to admit you believe there are no gods. You are what Phlogistan would call an anti-theist and I would call a hard atheist.
You have stated God or gods nonexistence have been demonstrated. I assume you believe your own assertion. Therefore you believe God(s) do not exist.
But you will not admit this. At least you have not admitted it enough times to make you a worthless conversation partner on this issue.
You want your cake and eat it too. You want to say that God's non-existence has been demonstrated while at the same time pretending you are not a hard atheist.
Honestly, I appreciate the fact that you have on at least two occasions admitted you made a mistake - to me that is, here. That's rather rare amongst posters here, theist and atheist alike. And I appreciate that. But on this issue, man to man, there is something strange going on with you.
I will not discuss issues related to atheism or theism with you ever again. Perhaps we will have a chance to discuss something else, though it seems like the main issue you discuss.
11-12-08, 06:03 PM #458
11-12-08, 06:11 PM #459
11-12-08, 06:45 PM #460
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