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Thread: Problems with Communism?

  1. #1
    Registered Senior Member Spectrum's Avatar
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    Problems with Communism?

    The idea of Communism is that all workers have equal 'shares' of the company for which they work, so that wealth is spread and all people become equal in status. However a company begins with the construction of a premises, and this must lead to builders having a monopoly of shares within all structures. Is this not a problem that leads once again to a monopolized 'state'?
    Last edited by Spectrum; 12-05-05 at 05:51 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum
    The idea of Communism is that all workers have equal 'shares' of the company for which they work, so that wealth is spread and all people become equal in status. ....
    No! Communism is NOT about "equal" shares for everyone. It's about providing the worker in accordance with his abilities and work efforts. Lazy workers don't get the same "share" as those who work hard and efficently.

    I don't understand the remainder of your post, but I'd suggest that you do some research on "communism" before you make public assertions about it.

    Baron Max

  3. #3
    Registered Senior Member Spectrum's Avatar
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    I'd suggest that you do some research on "communism" before you make public assertions about it.
    Could you provide me with any good links that might help me expand my current interest? I've read parts of the Communist manifesto which is from where I have drawn my assertions, but I have some problems understanding exactly how communism would (or does) work.

  4. #4
    Registered Senior Member vslayer's Avatar
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    it will never work in our current society because every time there has been a communist revolution, their has been a power hungry capitalist ready to use communist as a guise for employing slaves to keep them wealthy.

    communism is nothing more than an ideal because of the corruption in our society. as long as people continue to believe that they are better than everyone else, communism but a far off dream. equality is not in the nature of man, so until we can change man, we will be doomed to spend our lives living in this capitalist shithole corporate dictatorship.

  5. #5
    Valued Senior Member Facial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum
    The idea of Communism is that all workers have equal 'shares' of the company for which they work, so that wealth is spread and all people become equal in status. However a company begins with the construction of a premises, and this must lead to builders having a monopoly of shares within all structures. Is this not a problem that leads once again to a monopolized 'state'?
    What do you mean by "premise"?

  6. #6
    Registered Senior Member Spectrum's Avatar
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    People, could we improve our writing skills a bit? Thanks.

    ...every time there has been a communist revolution, their [there] has been a power hungry capitalist ready to use communist as a guise for employing slaves to keep them wealthy.
    My current conclusion is very similar: I conclude that communism will not work because people's motives will always be monetary.

    What do you mean by "premise[s]"?
    I mean a place of work; a building. Someone must construct such a thing, and since a builder's produce is the company itself, he must have partial ownership of it and it's produce, unless he agrees to build simply for a fee.

  7. #7
    Registered Senior Member vslayer's Avatar
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    no, following your line of thought, a builder would have not more ownership over a building than a factory worker would over a machine produced there.

  8. #8
    Valued Senior Member Facial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum
    The idea of Communism is that all workers have equal 'shares' of the company for which they work, so that wealth is spread and all people become equal in status. However a company begins with the construction of a premises, and this must lead to builders having a monopoly of shares within all structures. Is this not a problem that leads once again to a monopolized 'state'?
    If the 'builders' own part of what they construct, then more they construct, the less they need commodities or the land portion as fixed assets if you think about it fromt the perspective of "from whom according to his ability, to whom according to his need."

    I am not sure on how you define the monopoly of the state, but yes, since the Aristotelian definition of the state is the proletariat base (the "dictatorship") in communist theory, then yes everybody owns every single piece of property.

    Implementing this is not realistic for today's socially immature conditions.

  9. #9
    Registered Senior Member Spectrum's Avatar
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    ...a builder would have not more ownership over a building than a factory worker would over a machine produced there.
    But they should have revenue from what is produced?

    If the 'builders' own part of what they construct, then more they construct, the less they need commodities or the land portion as fixed assets...
    Exactly. But 'builders' will not need to construct more because they will have an income from what is already constructed.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum

    I mean a place of work; a building. Someone must construct such a thing, and since a builder's produce is the company itself, he must have partial ownership of it and it's produce, unless he agrees to build simply for a fee.
    The government owns everything, there are no shares, and the term monopoly dosnt apply either; thats a term used in the capitolist system.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Max
    No! Communism is NOT about "equal" shares for everyone. It's about providing the worker in accordance with his abilities and work efforts. Lazy workers don't get the same "share" as those who work hard and efficently.
    The actual system for communism is you work as much as you want for as much money as you want. so basically people work for personal growth, or out of patriotic thought, as income dosnt exist, everything is free. Hence a powerful propoganda machine is needed as the one in the days of the USSR, so people become patriotic enough to accept the system.

    And again "share" is inapplicable to the situation.

  12. #12
    Registered Senior Member Spectrum's Avatar
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    The government owns everything...
    It is my understanding that Marxist theory predicts Communism should lead to the abolition of government, since there will not be any private property.

  13. #13
    Valued Senior Member Facial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum
    But they should have revenue from what is produced?
    ...'builders' will not need to construct more because they will have an income from what is already constructed.
    In capitalism, it works that way.

    In communism, the builder is a volunteer for constructing edifices. That means he/she asks for nothing in return, so they don't necessarily get the revenue that is produced, and willingly so because their passion is not in the revenue, but in construction. This is the concept of the liberation of productivity; a man can paint, farm, or research without ever having to become a painter, farmer, or researcher, respectively.

    As you can easily see, most people don't think that way today. This is why communism, in the present, will not work. The implementation of communism requires a shift in perspective and material conditions.

  14. #14
    Valued Senior Member Facial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum
    It is my understanding that Marxist theory predicts Communism should lead to the abolition of government, since there will not be any private property.
    This is true. However, a government is almost always necessary to efficiently mobilize large-scale efforts. Until the time when a non-conscious computer system can effectively suffice as an artificial substitute, humans will continue to rely on government.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum
    It is my understanding that Marxist theory predicts Communism should lead to the abolition of government, since there will not be any private property.
    1. Thats marxism

    2."Communism should lead to the abolition of government, since there will not be any private property"

    that statment is almost an oxymoron, it makes no sence.

    your mixing socialism and anarchy into one.

  16. #16
    Registered Senior Member Spectrum's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Facial:
    In communism, the builder is a volunteer for constructing edifices. That means he/she asks for nothing in return, so they don't necessarily get the revenue that is produced, and willingly so because their passion is not in the revenue, but in construction. This is the concept of the liberation of productivity; a man can paint, farm, or research without ever having to become a painter, farmer, or researcher, respectively.
    So to view this theory from a starting perspective everyone must become a farmer and a builder first (so they may eat and have somewhere to live), and then they may follow their passions? Is this correct?

    Originally posted by Odin'Izm:
    That[']s marxism
    Well Marx co-wrote the Communist Manifesto so I'm guessing the two are closely linked.

    Originally posted by Odin'Izm:
    that statment is almost an oxymoron, it makes no sence. [sense]
    In what way?

    Originally posted by Odin'izm:
    you[']r[e] mixing socialism and anarchy into one.
    Am I???

  17. #17
    yep

    in that way

    yes

  18. #18
    Valued Senior Member Facial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectrum
    So to view this theory from a starting perspective everyone must become a farmer and a builder first (so they may eat and have somewhere to live), and then they may follow their passions? Is this correct?
    You are correct.

    The basis sustenance of living is essential. Therefore, some people must volunteer to collect the garbage, some people must milk the cows, some people must supervise the power stations.

    Nobody really has a passion for any of those menial jobs (maybe with the exception of farming for a few), but the fact remains that they have to be done. Science and art are accessory, but most people's passions will lie in these fields.

  19. #19
    Mourning in America madanthonywayne's Avatar
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    I believe the central tenet of communism is:
    From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.
    Karl Marx
    Which sounds good on its face, but leads to starvation, misery, oppresion, and death whenever it is applied. Communism is contrary to human nature and is, in practice, simply an excuse for brutal dictatorships.

  20. #20
    Are you people still talking about communism?!!

    Jeez. Wake up people.
    We won!!!
    The commies are in the past.

    We are all now free to work for minimum wage, dream about getting rich while our life passes us by and all we manage is to own a home and a couple of cars, which we have to work long hours to maintain.

    We are living in Capitalisms promised utopia. As we were told, the resources necessary to defeat them pinko-Commies, can now be used for the benefit of the Corporation so that we can feed off of their trickle-down saliva, and praise the Lord, God almighty, that we were so blessed so as to defeat them heathen Russians before they took our freedom and property away.

    All we freedom-fighters should be proud that we participated, in some small way, in maintaining the forces that are now leading us towards Globalization and liberty.
    All we working-men should pat each other on the back and congratulate ourselves for resisting Communism so that we can now enjoy the freedom to buy chips, and Coca-Cola, and we can idly wallow away our lives in front of the T.V. dreaming of a better tomorrow where we can all be rich and famous.

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