Work? But why work when everything is free for the asking? And, if it's free for the asking, then who pays for all those things? And no one forces anyone to work? ...and everything is free? ...and the money just grows on money trees? Baron Max
Yeah, but the same is true of socialism! Humans simply need to strife, to work hard to gain something that their fellows don't have ...it's our natural competitiveness. And capitalism simply works best with "animals" like humans! Capitalism, however, will go completely overboard if allowed to run it's natural course .....and Bill Gates or someone like him will control every single thing on the entire planet! So there must be some controls ....what kind and to what extent is open to question/debate. I'd also like to suggest that the mix of socialism and capitalism is a very poor mixture ....it's much like oil and water -- you can attempt to mix 'em, but in the end, they'll separate into their component parts. Baron Max
since nothing is forced... those who refuse to work... and who want to live in the gutter and beg for change.... can do so. but when they get tired of it, they would then have an option. a commune.. one that is religious... but doesnt force any views on anyone... and has only one requirement.. everyone works, as they are able... and said commune doesnt provide all you want... only what you need... and it is paid for... with hard labor.. and buisness profits.. buisnesses it would own... and use to employ its members. -MT
You guys you still have to work! If my dad decided to stop working today, and we weren't making any money we'd end up homeless. Soicalism doesn't do *everything* for you.
exactly... the point of the commune.. is that it acts like a loving Uncle... who gives you a job, and helps you no matter what... and if you fuck it up... he will find you another job.. it may not be what you want... but it is better than the gutter. -MT
Where from the job that "commune" gives come? If the commune does not produce anything as a whole, who is going to support it? If if does participate in the larger society, how can it afford more parasites than the larger society already has? You are fishing for fools, as all communism preachers are, in order to parasite on them. e Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! s
Im not fishing for anything.... I know for a fact... that 999 out of 1000 wont even think about biting. most civilized men are weak and small... -MT
Sure, not biting in the old fashioned way. But contemporary commie parasites are eager to suck blood through straw of help. e Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! s
I say we can have our cake and eat it too.... but both sides dont want to... they want it all or nothing.... hence the problem. -MT
What you mean really: if you steal the cake again e Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! s
no... but when we get to baking... we should simple plan for twice as many cakes... so we can all eat one and have one... likewise... we should build and have the free market... but also at the same time build communes for those who fall from the free world... in this way they dont hit the gutter... they hit helping hands... in this way, we have both.. capitalism and communism... and everyone is happy, and we have sovled the economic problems of every society. simply by incourageing the free market, but for those who dont fit in, or dont have the means... they can survive and prosper accordingly to their pariticipation is group efforts put forth in the communes. thus we have made two cakes... and one we can pig out on, and the other we keep preserved for emergencies.. and we simply make more cakes as needed. -MT
Plan? I knew you into stuff.. So you are saying you will steal flour for tree cakes, one give to commune members, one eat yourself, and still have a cake to show around? e Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! s
Good post. What you say here basically exposes the heart of the matter : what human nature exactly is. As for your second question - socialism, communism, and capitalism are basically systems of economy, but it is almost always entails how society operates itself. Democracy pertains to a system of government. It appears to me that the three socioeconomic systems of the former 'compete' for the most robust social implementation of democracy. So far, capitalist and socialist systems make good democracies. The self-proclaimed communist democracies (N. Korea) are generally out of league, but I'll have to do more research before I can say more. There are motifs that are found for both sides in nature : what you envision is that of lions competing for the kill and the pack of wolves competing for the title of alpha male. It is true that a significant portion of human nature mirrors this type of Darwinism. But then what about other animals such as ants, dolphins, gorillas, etc? These don't have a clearly defined hierarchy, and they work primarily through efforts of the group. Again, humans also exhibit certain aspects of this type of communal effort (i.e. the family), although I do admit that at present, evidence does suggest that the former concept seems to dominate individual consciousness. Cognitive research also suggests the same at present, but I am faily confident that the stages of research are primitive enough to be inconclusive. The very fact that we can already anticipate a higher society than what currently exists is, in itself, provocative.
Sounds like a good idea; a commune that lives off it's produce and trades it's excess for other necessities. However some form of authority would be needed within the commune to maintain order. Perhaps a 'police force' of sorts, but then this commune may be defined as a prison.
