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Thread: crashing into stars

  1. #1
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    crashing into stars


    so i was looking @ my alarm clock tonight and realised that the minutes are just measurements of distance that the Earth is travelling around the Sun. and so, it is kinda ticking away towards when the Earth spirals into the Sun. however, other planets (whatever the closer ones are) should hit the Sun first, and probably slightly alter it's position and whatnot. maybe not..

    anywayz,
    who here has the info needed to calculate the exact second that the last physical piece of the Earth will be fissed and fused by the sun? the Sun's probably a bit hotter than anything on or in Earth, so it might melt before it gets to the surface, but the "mathematical central impact pont" is fine for me.

    every second is probably technically shorter than the last, eh?


  2. #2
    The Earth might never be consumed by the Sun; as the Sun expands, it will also lose mass in an outpouring of solar wind, so the orbit of the Earth will get wider. Some estimates say that the new orbit of the Earth will be wide enough to avoid actual consumption by the giant Sun others disagree.

  3. #3
    less hate, more science cato's Avatar
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    the Sun's probably a bit hotter than anything on or in Earth
    thats not really true. TFTR (Tokamak Fusion Test Reactor) set a world record plasma temperature of 510 million degrees centigrade. the sun is only about 15 million.
    who here has the info needed to calculate the exact second
    nobody.

  4. #4
    I dont think any one knows what will happen when the red giant sun expand outwards to engulf the earth orbit. I dont beleive our orbit will move outward. Anyway mankind wont be around then, so why worry about it.

    REGARDS APOLO

  5. #5
    smoking revolver
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    Well, won't be around then on Earth anyways.
    Besides, when/if Sun's orbit would reache Earth's, it would have been a molten rock and liquid magma for a long time anyways.

  6. #6
    It could also be that before the Sun starts to grow to become a Red Giant, some wandering star passing near the Solar System could alter the orbit of Earth so it would be out of the claws of the Sun when it decides to expand. This is explained here
    http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...th_000224.html

  7. #7
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    Last edited by DwayneD.L.Rabon; 10-28-05 at 10:13 AM.

  8. #8
    Anyone here see that episode of the Twilight Zone where the Earth's orbit had been perturbed by a passing comet or something and the Earth was being drawn rapidly into the Sun? There was an artist that was painting and her paint kept melting and running off the canvas because it was so hot and getting hotter.

    And then, she woke up. And everything was so cold because a passing comet or something had perturbed the orbit of the Earth causing it to recede rapidly away from the Sun on an eventual escape from the Solar System altogether.

    That was sweet.

  9. #9
    Mr Anonymous
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    Last edited by Mr Anonymous; 01-02-07 at 10:05 PM.

  10. #10
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    Last edited by DwayneD.L.Rabon; 10-28-05 at 10:22 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DwayneD.L.Rabon
    To add soe prespective, here are a few of my notes i grabed from my laptop.
    I thought i make a quick post, so you will have to forgive my grammer.

    It just seemed to fit the topic.




    Given the inportance that stars(suns) play in the role of atomic stablity and ultimatly chemistry, it becomes apparent that humans will have to defend a large span of space to secure life in this solar system and planet earth. This may in the least require the defense of stars with 400 lightyears. as well the controll of the motion of our own sun and are nearest neighboring stars, mainly triple star alpha centauri.
    It also become apparent that other life form in our galaxy will have to do the same in order to gain stablity for thier planets, when these lifeforms become capable of understanding this significant fact of the stars, thier group stars, it will be at that momment that the campagin will being to secure those stars and to defend them.
    As earth and our solar system depend on a span of space some 400 light years in the least for stablity. this includes many stars in our star group, these stars containing solar systems may already support life, evolveing and developed, those that are developed will be in proccess of this significant fact of our group of stars or presueing the proccess's of those stars, this will cause the meeting of different life forms from different solar systems.
    Currently their has been various claims of alien life forms,thier space crafts, abductions, secret meetings ect..... by many people. understanding the possible events and the issues that would push a organization of lifeform from another solar system to ours, the protection of it group star system is one of the highest priority, if not the most inportant. it is a significanlty viable reason for traveling to another star. for any organization of developed lifeform in another solar system. Given this event the arrival of alien life form to this solar system most likly would be directed at the defense of this solar system as it plays a inportant role in the chemisty and atomic stablity of thier planet and solar system.
    This simple event would imply directly that any alien lifeform will be from at least 400 light years.
    As well it becomes highly likly that one existance of alien lifeform will include the presence of another, of which they have some aquaintence with already, those whom which they have encounterd be fore thier arrival in our solar sytem. both groups would tend to be within the plotted 400 lightyears, and have agreement to protect the star at which they reside,and live.
    this places the existance of our sun at the sight of such lifeforms, for the puropse of defending and controlling or altering its motion. placing the human lifeforms possibly at some jeapordy, how this becomes limtitng to view as it would serve better to use lifeforms from its own solar system to controll and maintain controll of such star as the life form is indigious to the solar systems effect and compression, this suits best over long time frames such as 10,000 years ect....., time frames effecting chemistry ect...., in contrast this may not suit some forms of alien life to that star, as they exist to be more proficent at the controll and defense of such a star and see the existing life forms as not pertaining to home solar events. even so it would seem a little negligent in the aspects where in both solar system would depend on the events that occur at either star, therefore surival mutally dependant.
    This without doubt leads to a grouping of life forms dependant on the same stars, seperating it from those other life form that are not dependant on that group of stars. this may actually define major differences in appearances and as well as different stars on which they they depend. it defintly would define classification. aliens within our star group are more lilkly to share some simular chemistry or use of chemisrty as they share the same stars that are responsible for atomic stablity, having nearly the same atoms present in thier solar systems.

    As of present it seems that humans once instutionally reconginzing the fact of the role that stars play in thier chemical stablity and at the capablity to reach those stars, humans will have to defend a smaller area than 400 lightyears, it seems that the area may be as small as 30 lightyears. This smaller area works to the advantage of the human race, both in traveling and controlling and defending. At the least it puts reaching them and carring out those tasks within reach under currnet science realities, math calculations ectra... where in near light speed may be obtained placeing humans in that regional area within 30 years, this is important as it places a human force in those areas and back in the time span of human life. such a task would currently take the devotion of indivdual life to the task of defending, human chemisrty, and ultimately life. In other terms taking in to account the defending indviduals construct of life, it would be nessacary to devise a near replica of earth life at such location or during the time in travel to such locations or both as the carring out the act involves a large time span of life.

    communication to distant stars
    Given the distance of 30 lightyears communication to other parties will require the motion of a planet, or lunar body, and controlling its graviton momment, this may be most effective with a hydrogen body, but could possible be best with a heavy element such as lead ect.... hydrogen has a prominet effect and is direct. it will be at this ppoint that controll of such large bodies will at some reference effect human life, and may effect certain cycyles in other solar systems, although minute to other solar systems, more prominate in our solar system or the transminting solar system. for this reason and just as well for accurate function of the body used for communication, the body should be placed and used outside of the planetary orbits, that past pluto. at time it may be nessacary to use lunar bodies of the outter planets, this would create a sounding board, and provide distance, and in creased wave form to the communication propagation. in general it will devise a background constant to the message sent, giving a defined frequency to be tune into. this however will have more effects on the transmiting solar system and its life forms.


    the primary objective for humans given the state of developments of science is to first aquire the mans by which to controll their own solar systems sun, once devising the meathod it would take a effort of traveling outside of the 30 lightyears range that supports current chemisty, and atomic stablity. this is to insure no disruption to the foundation of stars that makes atomic stablity possible in our solar system. it is a rule that is to be followed as there is really no room for negligence and error when safe gaurding planetary life. certainly it is clear that exspermients on this magnitude will have to be done mostly out side of stars within 30 lightyears. this plainly as well defines that travel at near light speed will have to be achived before the actual implication of controlling stars in the 30 light year area.
    in these event it should be remebered that it is alpha cent. and our sun that determine the chemisty of our planet, as well our solar systems planets are the controlling members of our chemisrty, it will be the outter region that past maybe light years that will controll atomic stabltiy, however here again our sun and alpha cent play a role in atomic stablity.

    understanding the inportance of star groups to alien life forms, invovles looking at those stars that are within the 30 light years, and in the case of stars that lay on the edge of that 30 light years, it is here that these star may have chemistry that relies on stars that are out of the influence on a atomic stablity level of our solar system, but those same stars not effecting earth play a role in the stablity of those outter area chemistry, this is where a seperation will exist, from our solar system but connected by a body that is effecting the chemistry important to other solar system. controll in this area may prove a cruical point to differeing groups. under the scope we can see that are galaxy has sprial arms, and that are solar sytem exist only in one reagion of the galaxy and on only one arm of the galaxy, the shape of this arm defines that there is a limit in the number of stars in the diameter of the sprial galaxtic arm, as well the arm is not uniformly consitant in its body, having areas that are seperate in density of stars, this assigns a grouping of stars to certain areas. at some point the interconnecting role that stars play in effecting atomic stabltiy in atoms stop, generally a star has a effect that is through the entrie galaxy, but its magnitude of effect on atomic stablity becomes limiting with in a given range, as for earth we can see that stars have effect amounting to a range of 30 light years defining atomic chemistry, and 10 light years or less effecting chemistry, understnding this it seems that our earth region of space and its stabltiy are governed by 30 light years and from here out ward the number of stars in proxcimity to outter stars effect atmoic stablity is fewer, that if it holds true will be of great benefit, elimnating events that may prove polictical disrupting. even so under the assumption that stars become fewer out side of the 30 light year range, it does not provide a free pass in circumsatnce. this mainly exist as to define a complete seperation of effect from solar systems in those regions that harbor life ti would require a seperation of 30 light years from the area of 30 light years that effects our solar system. given what we can see of atomic stabltiy effects. there are several organizations of stars in this region that would allow for favorable condtions, the exstended 30 light year range does not have to be ridged. so luck may prevail. currently postioning can be made defining the areas and paramiter. if one is to exist. being able to defend and controll the stars effecting chemistry on earth without disrupting the development of other life froms is moral and uncomplicating. understanding this it becomes clear that testing of controll of stars should occur outside of the stars within 30 light years of our sun effecting our atmoic chemistry but aslo set away from possible effects on alien life form in the outter area of that 30 light years range and not within effect of stars that support atmoic stablity for other life forms that exist within or with out that 30 light years range, that in general would encompass a area of 60 light years, here with that area of 60 light years the location of testing must be located. it should be possible from current star charts to define chemistry and atomic stablity of given areas within that 60 light years to define the liklyhood of life, that may exist in such a region. in general in is most probable that a star for exspermintation will be located in the diameter of the sprial arm, on its upper outward edge, this location provide safty from disruptions of the galaxys effects that support our local group of stars.
    effecting point for human life, are sun is traveling through our galaxy, away from the local star that currently supports our chemisrty and atmoic stabltiy, being namely alpha centauri. In 9000 the main star effecting earth chemisrty will be munich 15040, this star will being to gradually dominate chemistry as the effects of alpha cent. gradually deminish. this means that life chemistry for earth will deminish as well, more than likly before 9,000 years. therefor giving humans less than 9,000 years to master the tasks set forth. it is quite possible to achive given the time table of travel. even so there still remains the hurttle of the human race that must be crossed, that of the magnetic pole reversal for earth itself here humans must first survive the events of our solar system first, this event is not so far in our future appearing to occur in this century. it will be the proving ground for the human race.
    it is the definitly the proving ground as it require that the human race carry through the magnetic pole reversal nearly the entire world population of 6 billion people. currently a task for world goverments as there appears to be no organization devoted to this purpose.
    the carrage of 6 billion people remains nessacary as the human race require a population by which to propell a human force capable undertaking the tasks set force and maintaing it. this is clear as humans are subject to function condtions, wherein humans have a disfunction rate equal to about 97% of the total population, producing only 168 million humans without functional disablity in a life span, with only 56 million being of adult age. it becomes even more apparent to carry the entire 6 billion as the current rate or social order that is growing is the reduced number of birth per female, placing births per female at a rate of 2 children, this occurrs even though it is nessacary to maintain a birth rate of 3 birth per female to equal the inbreding and disfuntional rate, 4 to surpass it. in addtions to these difficulties some populations on earth have limited the number of births per female to 1 birth. the scoial circumstance will degrade the base of functional humans born rather quicky, it is clear that it hinder the upward evolution of the human race and produce more mutations, and disfunctions. so it apppears that human race is in some respects declining.
    given the event of a 9,000 year limit, and the distance to be traveled for exspermintation of greater than 30 light years,( 50LY), from current rate the human race has 180 times to try at reaching the test zone, that computed figure is reduced by gaining and transmiting information gained by nearly 50%, providing 90 attempts and less to get it right. that frame is further reduced by the fact that such a task will to be preformed before the end of 9,000 years, some 4,500 years less, which gives a figure of 23 tries to achive the test and mastrer them with sufficent success to return and correct and controll are sun and its closest neighboring star alpha cent. it appears to be getting a little thin, for the human race to surive the next 5,000 years. it clearly puts the magnetic pole reversal as the proving ground for the human race, as well increases the nessacary role of carring the entrie human population as the breeding rate of humans over such a period of 5,000 years will not produce a population that will support a population that can carry out the remaing task of controlling our local stars and the needed exsperiments 50 lightyears away.
    human decline over 5,000 years and increased disfunctional births due to chemical change caused by star seperation. define the present population as crucially important to the existance of the human race and its future generation.
    It is as the current time 2005 A.D, in human histroy that are the turning point for the human race, as we currently have entered the proving ground, a time when humans must preform as a unifed body to survive as a race, such statements in our current time are taken lightly as there has been many claim on the events of human race, inturn this has taken a effect on the ablity of people to recongize the on comming events as those of reality, this trend in soicety furtur hinders the actions to make progress at a crucial time in human history. it is not only this social trend that brings about hinderance but the events that even scientific groups are in disagreeance as to numerous events, this was to exspected as the growth of human science has reached many feilds and previous works have been writ changing scientific understanding and application of facts with new discoveries ect..., these constructs of human social order make for a seriously dangerous enviroment in current times, entering the proving grounds of a magnetic reversal. this exist mainly becasuse the magnetic feild of earth effects human thought, it is the one force that has quicked the thought proccess of humans, as its poliarity effect the reaction and conduction of electrictly and eletrons resposablt for human thought, clearly it's motion is resposiable for the increased intellignece that humans have currently gained, this has occured as its motion has gradually increased over the last few hundred years, effecting animal life as well. this may seem as a benefit but not altogeather so as the increased motion and effect of the magnetic pole has cause a intellectual boom resulting in the various portrayed ideas of earth events causing disruption resuting in a delayed response to a actual event, so of this protrail of ideas have as well made a outlet for informing the public and prepareing the public for such events, providing a idea of global disaster, the onslaught og intellectual growth has as well caused as many view point of sciencetist to form as well furthur numbing actual response. but most important of the effects of the motion of the magnetic feild is the effect on memory and sense, wherein the attention span or abltiy of humans to focus thought become less organized, in addtion the relation of though to work preformed by the physical body will aslo changed in reponse time. these are cruical factors in the abltiy of the human race to react to protect human life. in the light of this disadvantage there still has arised at least a determination that the magnetic feild reversal is currently due setting aside speculation that it will not happen, but with in this determination and its exsposer there exist difference of scientific view of the time at which it will happen, it is this fine point that mis leads governing bodies, even in the presence of the magnetic poles reaction and gain in motion torward the our planets axis as to cuurent date . it is here that the absurdy and failure seem to take presedence as a plague as it should be clear to governing bodies and the genral public that a reaction of the magnetic poles and that of the axis will result in the faiure of the feild and a magnetic pole reversal, if goverment is of serious mind even in common sense then it would appear that action should be set in motion to carry the human race through a magnetic reversal, one must ask living in this time where is the work being done as it appears to not be evidently happening on a large scale level capable of sustaing the human race through the event.


    DwayneD.L.Rabon
    I wouldn't sit patiently beside your phone waiting for a call from ET telling you he's coming by for a visit anytime to soon. Instead, you might have a better chance of getting noticed by ET standing on your roof at night and waving your T-shirt and yelling obscentities towards the center of our galaxy. If that works for you then it works for me too.

    Okeydoke

  12. #12
    Be kind to yourself always. cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THC

    so i was looking @ my alarm clock tonight and realised that the minutes are just measurements of distance that the Earth is travelling around the Sun. and so, it is kinda ticking away towards when the Earth spirals into the Sun. however, other planets (whatever the closer ones are) should hit the Sun first, and probably slightly alter it's position and whatnot. maybe not..

    anywayz,
    who here has the info needed to calculate the exact second that the last physical piece of the Earth will be fissed and fused by the sun? the Sun's probably a bit hotter than anything on or in Earth, so it might melt before it gets to the surface, but the "mathematical central impact pont" is fine for me.

    every second is probably technically shorter than the last, eh?




    By that time , IF HUMANS SURVIVE, we will be able to create a new sun with advancements in astronomical physics and particle physics.

  13. #13
    smoking revolver
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    Cool, cool,
    but you'd need to get rid of the old one first. And that all without much temperature changes, or the Earth's ecosystem will be destroyed.

    The best and easiest solution is to terraform another planet

  14. #14
    Be kind to yourself always. cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    But what if, in a few billion years which is how long the sun will last, if humans can make the sun they have, if humans are still alive, just rekindle itself without going into death throws at all? No need to start with a new sun just keep tossing the coals into the fire so to say.
    Last edited by cosmictraveler; 06-19-05 at 05:11 PM.

  15. #15
    If we start now, we could capture and as much energy as possible from all the stars in the sky using Dyson shells, extract unfused elements from those stars to make artificial stars when required, and live off stored energy for trillions of years; once that has run out the cold remnants of stars left iover could be crashed together to form neutron stars or black holes.

    In theory a civilisation could survive on the radiation from black holes far into the deep future. But it would not be a future that we would recognise readily.

  16. #16
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    DwayneD.L.Rabon -

    Are you familiar with someone who used an avatar names Mental Avenger or Tal D Noble? Your writing sounds VERY familiar...

    - Kit

  17. #17
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    I think we're going to find out that when we need to, if we keep advancing, we will be able to build new stars.

  18. #18
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    Last edited by DwayneD.L.Rabon; 10-28-05 at 10:12 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by invert_nexus View Post
    Anyone here see that episode of the Twilight Zone where the Earth's orbit had been perturbed by a passing comet or something and the Earth was being drawn rapidly into the Sun? There was an artist that was painting and her paint kept melting and running off the canvas because it was so hot and getting hotter.

    And then, she woke up. And everything was so cold because a passing comet or something had perturbed the orbit of the Earth causing it to recede rapidly away from the Sun on an eventual escape from the Solar System altogether.

    That was sweet.
    Yeah that was awesome. I love ye Olde TZ.

  20. #20
    Registered Senior Member Skeptical's Avatar
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    In approximately 5 billion years, the sun expands as a red giant to consume the Earth (maybe).

    In one tenth of that time, the expanding sun gets hot enough so that the whole Earth is at a temperature of almost 100 C or more. The only life able to survive will be a few thermophiles - bacteria.

    Humanity had better get a move on in its space development. We only have 500 million years at most to travel to other stars to find a new home!

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