An Intelligent Universe

The case for evolved universal intelligence can be put using only one line of reasoning. IMO
Proposition:
Evidence of universal intelligence is able to be realized once it is accepted that we human can only imitate that which influences us. [intelligence included]


If our intelligence is merely an imitation (reflection) then logically it can be concluded that the object/target of our imitation is intelligent.
therefor, by force of reasoning only, the universe itself would be deemed intelligent.

Which then brings up that famous notion that "Man was created in the image of God". If " imitation only" holds true then change the word God to Universe and "bingo!" we have an intelligent universe!!

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Care to discuss?

 

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I don't think intelligence is just a matter of imitation. I think it is hardwired into our brains. It's a capability that shows all the signs of having evolved thru natural selection. To say it is the product of intelligence is to beg the question: "Where did THAT intelligence come from?" and so on and so forth into an infinite regression. Evolution completely suffices to explain where our intelligence came from. No designer required.

Ofcourse it may be helpful to agree on what intelligent means. Most definitions I looked up seem to include some mental ability to comprehend or understand--a consciousness behind the intelligence. Is this what you are asserting? That the universe "understands" and "thinks" and performs goal-oriented actions just like a person does? What evidence do you have for this? More specifically, what structures in nature allow this intelligence to arise outside of a brain? Do you have a theory for how intelligence can exist without being generated by a brain?

 

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It's spelled "discuss" ...yes? There is nothing to discuss here nor has their ever been each time you bring this up.

Man doesn't merely imitate. What were we imitating when we went to the Moon? Dogs imitate when we teach them tricks.

Our intelligence isn't a reflection of anything. It's an evolved ability. "Reflection" doesn't even make sense in this context.

Ask yourself the question..."Why do I keep bringing this baseless idea up when it gets torn down every time I bring it up?" ... discuss...yes?

 

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Normally intelligent people can differentiate between focusing on the "ball" and not the "man". For someone to consider the man to be the ball indicates a serious deficiency of self esteem.

Do you have low self esteem Seattle?
You seem to want to take some of mine... here have it man.. be happy!
Actually there is no need for you to answer it.. 'tis obvious for all to see.

 

how many times have I brought this issue up? .. as a far as know it only "evolved in the other thread about 24 hours ago.

What inspired man to think of "flying" do you think?.. Then go on from there...

and what is the context that you seem so challenged in grasping?

see above

 

It is a topic that is way too complicated to be discussed with high expectations on an online forum such as this one.
So we shall have to tolerate short speak stabs at it.

What evidence do YOU think exists for it?
I see everything man kind has ever achieved, being achieved initially though the use of imitation, and see no reason not to extend that observation to include "evolved intelligence".
From the use of fire to flying to the moon, all appear to be inspired by influences that mankind has only imitated or reflected.
The more I consider it the more axiomatic the idea seems. Which means, reasoning it out will verge on being circular and ultimately become circular [self justifying].
We can only Know what we sense or have sensed and to sense something is to reflect it as a feeling or knowledge.
ie. rough surface = / = rough surface
At a basic level we are merely mirrors or reflectors of our environment.

I really don't know, but feel it is worth exploring for surely if all we do is imitate then exploring what we are imitating may be a journey worth undertaking...[after all that is all our intelligence is doing is it not]

Regarding ideas of religious context:

I posted this in another thread and thought it relevant to post it again here.

 

Evidence for what? You were the one asserting that man copies some sort of intelligence outside of his own brain. What is your evidence for this intelligence, taken as a basic mental capacity to think and understand and perform goal-directed actions? Why not just call it the natural order of the universe?

 

Yep, man could be seen as reflecting and imitating the natural order of the universe.. sure...
After all is not knowledge that you hold a reflection or imitation of something whether beyond yourself or derived from with in?
Including the use of tools taught to you as a child, such as compare, discriminate, manipulate, compile, compose, dance, sing, talk, walk etc etc

 

Beautiful. The more you reflect on this idea you pulled out of nowhere the more you've decided it is self evident

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If we try to use reason then it will just result in circular logic...hahaha

Therefore let's not use reason...yes? Discuss...haha

We can only know what we sense (brilliant) and to sense is to "reflect" so we are just mirrors. What utter nonsense.

This is just starting with a made up premise and making any scenario after that "fit" the premise. Going to the Moon original thinking? No, God made birds, birds fly so we are just imitating birds and therefore God when we go to the Moon.

Whatever floats your boat...yes? Discuss.

Regarding whether you've brought this up before...this is all you ever bring up. It's why you are on this site.

Let's see...start a thread that has something to do with "Zero Point Nonsense", ask a question ending with ..."yes?" and then "discuss".

When someone comes along to refute every statement you then call them a name and feign indifference to further discussion or imply that it's too complex to discuss with our current level of understanding.

Discuss...

 

a religio-phobic statement.."no designer required"... where the hell did that come from. I never suggested such a thing....

What is evolution, but a product of imitation [ cloning ] and forced adaptation of that which is imitated? [mutation]
Yes one could conclude that our innate intelligence is the product of evolved imitation...

 

opps! .. Seattle your underpants are showing....

Don't tell me and the board, that you are a closet God believer!???

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Religio-phobic statement if I ever seen one.

What is it about me that brings all this religious hubris out in other people....[chuckle]

edit: "It is the nature of any closed system to be ultimately self justifying in it's existence" ~QQ2013

 

So you're backpeddling now and saying it isn't an intelligence afterall?

 

Then I guess yours are showing as well since imitation is all you feel you are capable of

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Too bad your intellect isn't even capable of that apparently.

 

how so?

 

your too quick.or I am too slow.. read the finished post... again

 

No it isn't. Our innate intelligence IS innate, meaning it is something we are born with and have acquired thru evolution. It isn't something we imitate from looking at nature.

 

you missed my comment about how evolution is about imitation [cloning]...etc didn't you?

Possibly a definition of "intelligence" itself in this context could read:
What is intelligence, but a product of imitation [ cloning ] and forced adaptation of that which is imitated? [mutation - creativity]

 

Are you not capable of using any language correctly? Religious hubris coming from a non-believer? How is that possible?

You are the one who equates God with universal intelligence. You are the (not so) closeted God believer. At least be honest about it

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Nevermind..I'm not wasting my time with another disingenuous theist trying to palm off his God concept as sound science.

 

ha ha.... oh my golly... where oh where can you quote me ever saying that? religio-phobic nonsense!