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Thread: What is space ?

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by KilljoyKlown View Post
    Can you supply any links that give a bit more detail and support what you are saying?
    It's kind of an interpretation of quantum mechanics. I believe that the wave-function is a real (really strange) phenomena of nature. Here are my links to support that.
    [1] http://arxiv.org/pdf/1111.3328v2.pdf
    [2] http://arxiv.org/pdf/1112.3575v1.pdf

    Anything small enough to be described with by a wave-function (QM math) is, in my interpretation, actually made of wave-functions (nature). Quarks, photons, protons, atoms, virtual particles are all described by QM and with wave-functions. If wave-functions (nature) really exist, then all these things must be made of them. I suppose it's like saying that something is made of that which describes it. But if that which describes it really exists, then in a sense it's true.

    this just tells us what is IN space
    Wave-functions are either directly responsible for the implementation of all physics (particularly relativity, gravity, space-time continuum), or they are directly interfaced with the space-time continuum. The idea is that I can generate a particular configuration of wave-functions, at least some wave-functions, using emissions of photons. I want to be able to interface directly with the space-time continuum, and induce gravity fields. Even if that interface between wave-functions and the space-time continuum is only indirect, I might still be able to induce gravity fields. That's really what is important here.

  2. #42
    Registered Senior Member steampunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hansda View Post
    Is it just empty space ?

    Or,

    Space is consisting of some mass-less particles ?
    Space doesn't exist. Everything has mass. It just very, very thin stuff.

    Sorry if my revelation has caused distress in the claustrophobic.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    It's kind of an interpretation of quantum mechanics. I believe that the wave-function is a real (really strange) phenomena of nature. Here are my links to support that.
    [1] http://arxiv.org/pdf/1111.3328v2.pdf
    [2] http://arxiv.org/pdf/1112.3575v1.pdf

    Anything small enough to be described with by a wave-function (QM math) is, in my interpretation, actually made of wave-functions (nature). Quarks, photons, protons, atoms, virtual particles are all described by QM and with wave-functions. If wave-functions (nature) really exist, then all these things must be made of them. I suppose it's like saying that something is made of that which describes it. But if that which describes it really exists, then in a sense it's true.
    If massive particles are made of wave-functions , then wavefunctions must be having some mass .

    If space is also made of wave-functions , then space will also be having some mass . Is it true ?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoccoR View Post
    (MY QUESTION)

    Is it not self-evident that the known universe, and beyond, is filled with "light."

    What about space , when it is night (there is no light) ?

  5. #45
    Do you remember the two slit experiment? The photons or electrons travel through the slits and landing on the back board with an interference pattern. Even if the photons are fired individually, they will still interfere as long as both slits are open. What are the photons interfering with?

    For this to occur routinely and easily, it has to be the particle pathways through slit 1 and slit two that are interfering, not the particles themselves. If the particle pathways are interfering, then they must be waves. Since the particle pathways are described by wave-functions (QM math), then particle pathways must be wave-functions (natural). All particles have pathways, therefore space must be filled with wave-functions. So it follows that space is made of wave functions.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by hansda View Post
    If massive particles are made of wave-functions , then wavefunctions must be having some mass .

    If space is also made of wave-functions , then space will also be having some mass . Is it true ?
    In the two slit experiment, the wave function for each pathway will sit there until a photon or electron is fired at the slits. While it's waiting, the wave-function is not energized. But when a photon or electron is fired, the wavefunction(2) of the interfering pathways are energized by a photon or briefly take on the mass if the electron.

  7. #47
    Registered Senior Member RoccoR's Avatar
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    Mazulu, et al,

    When you say: "While it's waiting, the wave-function is not energized;" and "wavefunction(2) of the interfering pathways are energized." What does that mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    In the two slit experiment, the wave function for each pathway will sit there until a photon or electron is fired at the slits. While it's waiting, the wave-function is not energized. But when a photon or electron is fired, the wavefunction(2) of the interfering pathways are energized by a photon or briefly take on the mass if the electron.
    (QUESTION)

    The wave function is a mathematical description. It is not substance. The wave function only becomes apparent in the detected pattern after the particle negotiates the double-slit barrier; and only when the photon and/or electron is not being observed. As soon as you start tracking the particle, the wave function is no longer observable.

    So what is happening?

    Most Respectfully,
    R

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    Do you remember the two slit experiment? The photons or electrons travel through the slits and landing on the back board with an interference pattern. Even if the photons are fired individually, they will still interfere as long as both slits are open. What are the photons interfering with?

    For this to occur routinely and easily, it has to be the particle pathways through slit 1 and slit two that are interfering, not the particles themselves. If the particle pathways are interfering, then they must be waves. Since the particle pathways are described by wave-functions (QM math), then particle pathways must be wave-functions (natural).
    All particles have pathways, therefore space must be filled with wave-functions. So it follows that space is made of wave functions.
    Space is also filled with particles . Does it mean that space is made of these particles ?

  9. #49
    I would say it's the other way around. Space is made of wave-functions. Particles, both massive and massless (photons) are made of wave-functions. So, particles and light are really made out of space that is excited by energy.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    I would say it's the other way around. Space is made of wave-functions. Particles, both massive and massless (photons) are made of wave-functions. So, particles and light are really made out of space that is excited by energy.
    This is a nonsensical thought you have pretty much made up.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    This is a nonsensical thought you have pretty much made up.
    Nonsensical how? Can you be very specific? I want to know, specifically, how I am wrong.

  12. #52
    Arguing with a crank - useless AlexG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    Nonsensical how? Can you be very specific? I want to know, specifically, how I am wrong.
    How could you be wrong? After all, God told you.

  13. #53
    How could you be wrong? After all, God told you.
    The proof is the experiment.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    Nonsensical how? Can you be very specific? I want to know, specifically, how I am wrong.
    You may as well have said the Universe is made up of meters.
    Yes, a meter can be used to measure- but the Universe is not made of meters. A meter is an expression, even an exact value- but not a thing. Something can be three meters in length- but it is not made of meters.

    Wave function is a mathematical expression. But then, who am I to say.
    I'm not made of Gods. I'm not even made of 's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    The proof is the experiment.
    Which, you haven't conducted.

  15. #55
    Registered Senior Member RoccoR's Avatar
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    hansda, et al,

    What we call "night" is merely a descriptive word about the intensity of the light in the visible spectrum.

    Quote Originally Posted by hansda View Post
    What about space , when it is night (there is no light) ?
    (COMMENT)

    The entire universe is awash with light of one kind of another. The only thing that varies is the spectrum of the light and its intensity. There is no place in the universe you can go and not have light, whether it be CBR or something more traditional. There are probably stellar radiators that are composed of material made well before Earth's star (Sun). So far out in the universe, that the energy has not had time to reach Earth.

    Most Respectfully,
    R

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    You may as well have said the Universe is made up of meters.
    Yes, a meter can be used to measure- but the Universe is not made of meters. A meter is an expression, even an exact value- but not a thing. Something can be three meters in length- but it is not made of meters.

    Wave function is a mathematical expression. But then, who am I to say.
    I'm not made of Gods. I'm not even made of 's. Which, you haven't conducted.
    Light is nature's meter stick. One meter is the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299 792 458 of a second. What do you call 10 million cycles of ultraviolet light?

    Answer: 1 meter.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    Light is nature's meter stick. One meter is the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299 792 458 of a second. What do you call 10 million cycles of ultraviolet light?

    Answer: 1 meter.
    Irrelevant.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    You may as well have said the Universe is made up of meters.
    Yes, a meter can be used to measure- but the Universe is not made of meters. A meter is an expression, even an exact value- but not a thing. Something can be three meters in length- but it is not made of meters.

    Wave function is a mathematical expression. But then, who am I to say.
    I'm not made of Gods. I'm not even made of 's.
    Irrelevant.
    In a way, the universe is made of meter sticks and periods of time. We call it wavelength and frequency of light. The wave function is thought to be a complete description of the quantum system. A photon can be described as a quantum system. So which has more information about the photon? The photon itself? Or the wave-function that describes it?

    One of the amazing characteristics of the Double slit diffraction experiment is that the photons can be fired at the double slits, one at a time, and the photons still undergo interference. How can the photons interfere with each other if they are fired at the slits one at a time? It makes more sense that the wave-functions themselves are the things that are interfering, not the photons. The wave functions are a description of the pathway that the photon takes from the source, through the slits, to the back wall. Wave functions are supposed to be a complete description of the quantum system.

    Conclusion: Wave functions are a real phenomena of nature. The photon is just an excitation of the wave-function of energy E=hf.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    In a way, the universe is made of meter sticks and periods of time. We call it wavelength and frequency of light. The wave function is thought to be a complete description of the quantum system. A photon can be described as a quantum system. So which has more information about the photon? The photon itself? Or the wave-function that describes it?

    One of the amazing characteristics of the Double slit diffraction experiment is that the photons can be fired at the double slits, one at a time, and the photons still undergo interference. How can the photons interfere with each other if they are fired at the slits one at a time? It makes more sense that the wave-functions themselves are the things that are interfering, not the photons. The wave functions are a description of the pathway that the photon takes from the source, through the slits, to the back wall. Wave functions are supposed to be a complete description of the quantum system.

    Conclusion: Wave functions are a real phenomena of nature. The photon is just an excitation of the wave-function of energy E=hf.
    The difference between an interpretation and a conclusion.

    An interpretation lets you know that more research is required.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazulu View Post
    The wave functions are a description of the pathway that the photon takes from the source, through the slits, to the back wall.
    So, wave-function is describing a path . This path is made of what ?



    Wave functions are supposed to be a complete description of the quantum system.

    Conclusion: Wave functions are a real phenomena of nature. The photon is just an excitation of the wave-function of energy E=hf.
    It is observed that , wave-function collapses in the presence of an observer . Is it also true for space ?

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