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Thread: Explaining my disgust toward China

  1. #1
    Valued Senior Member WillNever's Avatar
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    Explaining my disgust toward China

    Many of us have long debased the country of China and its people as belonging to a degraded culture of cruelty and greed. In response, certain members of sciforums took it upon themselves to defend the people of China and berate those of us who find their behaviors unconscionable. This thread is a shout-out to those people in particular, spurred by the latest shutdown of an innocent thread about an interesting item of Chinese news, titled "China students receive IV infusions to nourish them while studying," which was supposed to demonstrate the dangers of taking educational endeavors to extremes. The thread was inexplicably locked by a moderator after only a few replies and I was labeled as racist against Chinese. It was this event that made me realize that things have gone too far, that items of trivia within Chinese news are rapidly becoming forbidden topics.

    Some of you may be wondering why a high proportion of my threads and discussions deal with China. And just like always, I'll be straight with you. Here are the pure, unadulterated reasons: I don't like the country, I don't like its people in general, and I believe that I have very good reasons for such. I believe that the country is an oppressive hell-realm and that its people are raised to be complacent materialists who consider human and animal lives on the basis of pure quantity, to be used, abused, and discarded as they see fit. No, I don't believe these aspects to be "inherent" within Chinese DNA, or some other racial crappola that some of the moronic thinkers on the forum would perhaps like to accuse me of in order to justify their baseless accusations of racism. Rather, I believe that the Chinese are trained to think that way throughout their upbringing. It's what their culture is based on, and I despise almost every aspect of it. I don't believe that the population is wholly at fault for that, as I believe that ethnic homogeneity and isolationism has played a part in their cultural development, but I still hold them accountable for their actions, the same way I would hold accountable a murderer who grew up in a broken, abusive home. The background and history of people helps explain -- but not excuse -- the actions of individuals.

    As a pet owner, what really grinds my gears is China's animal rights abuses in particular and their utter absence of laws surrounding that issue.

    Let me establish that I own two dogs, and if were to catch some little scumbag abusing either one of them, I would probably want to rip his head off with my bare hands. So, it should go without saying that when I see some article in the news about some mentally retarded Chinese whores strapping on high heel shoes and then stomping on a kitten, rabbit or dog (google the hundreds of articles on "crush videos" or simply view my prior thread here), I've got a problem with it. What is so hard about passing one goddamn animal rights law? We don't even need to talk about enforcing it. I'm talking about enacting a single, niggardly animal rights law so that they have something on the books to deter people from these abnormal behaviors. I already know why they won't, and I challenge anybody here to prove me wrong. It's because they simply don't give a shit, and I have a virtual tidal wave of historical evidence to back me up.

    Mahatma Gandhi once said the following: "the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." If we were to hold China to this philosophy, then they would be, in Gandhi's estimation, probably one of the least morally progressed countries in the world. China is a world leader in exporting body parts of endangered species. Their "traditional medicine" old wives tales kill off species by the dozens. They purposely torture animals because they believe that maximizing pain causes the animals' brains to secrete meat-sweetening chemicals. Putting China to the test bodes very badly for them. I see nothing wrong with applying Gandhi's philosophy either; it isn't a bad philosophy at all.

    However, I know the reasons behind why people try to suppress these kinds of sentiments in others. For one thing, a great number of people inwardly agree with my thoughts but are constantly pressured by certain other members into exhibiting a sense of shame for having those thoughts, and so they likewise become intolerant of people who outwardly voice those views. In that way, it's similar to the theory that homophobes feel aggravated by gays because they're actually secretly homosexual. If that theory has any validity to it, then those people shouldn't be feeling too good about themselves right now.

    The other prime reason is a refusal to see things in black and white. Seeing things in black and white usually forces you to take a stance. Often, people don't like to stick their neck out like that and they like to push all matters into a vague "gray area" because they believe it makes them seem more intellectual. We see the same mentality with certain populations living in oppression, such as muslim women in Saudi Arabia and Indonesia. "It's complicated," or "they're not really like that" or when video evidence is released, "it's an isolated incident." All statements which are wrong in this case. A traveling nurse who I know, who does missionary work abroad, just came back from China and promises me that they have no respect for animals whatsoever. Most of them *are* like that because as kids they learned that animals are simply meant to eat or use in some other way. He witnessed a small toddler throwing a cat around and jumping up and down on it, while his elders just stood around and laughed. They probably ate the cat later. A lot of times an issue is appropriately viewed in the "gray area," but you generally find that things fall more on one side than the other.

    So there you have it. Those are my reasons for bashing China. They have an utter lack of respect for life. Animal lives are commodities and human lives are nearly as cheap. By showing outrage at Chinese people, and making it clear that this is unacceptable behavior, those not involved come down even harder on those involved. It is the positive side to peer pressure. Does it seem unfair to slam an entire country? Yes, but putting aside a few hurt feelings, it's the only way to create change. Some cultures have a dark side. That is an undeniable reality in this world, and it is my carefully considered opinion that Chinese culture has a massive dark side when it comes to the treatment of animals.
    Last edited by WillNever; 05-18-12 at 02:32 AM.

  2. #2
    I wonder if you have ever visited China. It's not all that pleasant, but I am sure the encounters you will have with individuals there will assure you of their humanity and good grace.

    An as for your statement:
    I believe that the country is an oppressive hell-realm and that its people are raised to be complacent materialists who consider human and animal lives on the basis of pure quantity, to be used, abused, and discarded as they see fit.
    I think you could be describing my native land, the U.S.A. Have you any idea what goes on at farm factories, and fish factories? The poisoning of lakes and streams from pesticides? The wage-slavery oppression of 99% (according to many) of the people?

    And do you know of any countries where such practices are not widely practiced? Please inform!?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
    I wonder if you have ever visited China. It's not all that pleasant, but I am sure the encounters you will have with individuals there will assure you of their humanity and good grace.

    An as for your statement:


    I think you could be describing my native land, the U.S.A. Have you any idea what goes on at farm factories, and fish factories? The poisoning of lakes and streams from pesticides? The wage-slavery oppression of 99% (according to many) of the people?

    And do you know of any countries where such practices are not widely practiced? Please inform!?
    It really is a lot worse in China, Epictetus.

    Hey, I'll get up and complain and voice and speak out against our perceived problems here at home as loudly as anyone...

    But yeah... We really DO have it a LOT better than many in China do...

    EDIT: WillNever is a bit extreme in his claims- Sorry, I should have clarified this.
    He's passionate- ok, I get that. But uhh... it kind of fails to account for human nature. We are not so easily bred to be machines nor to think any certain way.
    We can be oppressed... indoctrinated and heavily influenced. People still have their own beliefs, ideas and many people really do try hard to be good people no matter what others say.
    Classifying an entire group of people like that is out of line. Scientifically as well as ethically.

  4. #4
    Valued Senior Member WillNever's Avatar
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    Classifying an entire group of people like that is out of line. Scientifically as well as ethically.
    I agree with you. It is out of line -- if you are saying that there are no deviations from your generalizations, which I am not. It is not always wrong to generalize, however. Not when those generalizations are mostly correct. For example, if I were to say that "Americans have capitalist values," it would be regarded as a generally correct statement. Citing a few freak communists within our midst would not invalidate that statement.

    Exceptions do not invalidate the rule. That's why they're called "exceptions." Citing exceptions does not change the fact that all groups of people in this world have different values and beliefs. If that were not true, then we wouldn't have distinct cultures and groups to begin with. We would all belong to a homogenous culture of mixed brown looking people with the same religion, laws, and ethical standards. Well, that's not the world we live in. We live in a diverse world where different groups have very different behavioral tendencies, some positive, some negative, and they are due to the way that those cultures developed throughout time.
    Last edited by WillNever; 05-18-12 at 02:28 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by WillNever View Post
    I agree with you. It is out of line -- if you are saying that there are no deviations from your generalizations, which I am not. It is not always wrong to generalize, however. Not when those generalizations are mostly correct. For example, if I were to say that "Americans have capitalist values," it would be regarded as a generally correct statement. Citing a few freak communists within the country would not invalidate that statement.

    Exceptions do not invalidate the rule. That's why they're called "exceptions." Citing exceptions does not change the fact that all groups of people in this world have different values and beliefs. If that were not true, then we wouldn't have distinct cultures and groups to begin with. We would all belong to a homogenous culture of mixed brown looking people with the same religion, laws, and ethical standards. Well, that's not the world we live in. We live in a diverse world where different groups have very different behavioral tendencies, some positive, some negative, and they are due to the way that those cultures developed throughout time.
    Good refutation, really. I mean... it's a shade of gray. Edit: I mean that my perceptions of what I read are a shade of gray.

    See, I can see how the wording you chose is just plain... Too general... I also cannot think of a better way you could have to express yourself.

    Even so, reading over that novel you typed, I can easily see that you are expressing an opinion you've considered validated and it's not one justified by racism.
    I would still label it as "opinion" at this point, and is, therefore, not fundamentally wrong.

    Let me throw an apology out on that note. I had a knee jerk reaction.

    I haven't finished reading that novel yet. So cannot comment too much on the O.P. because... yeah. That's a lot to go through and think about.
    Unloaded a bit, did ya?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    It really is a lot worse in China, Epictetus.

    Hey, I'll get up and complain and voice and speak out against our perceived problems here at home as loudly as anyone...

    But yeah... We really DO have it a LOT better than many in China do...
    Of course Americans have a better life than Chinese do, but at what cost? We consume the lion's share of world resources.
    And I'm not sure what you can mean by it is a lot worse in China. How so? The U.S. has been polluting the environment and consuming resources a lot longer. We are only beginning to understand and utilize sustainability, so I can't see how America is more conscientious than China(if that's what you mean).

    Also, I still want to know if WillNever has been to China.And I would like to know just what he is suggesting here. Should we kill the Chinese? Just what are you on about?

  7. #7
    Valued Senior Member Buddha12's Avatar
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    2,951
    WillNever

    By showing outrage at Chinese people, and making it clear that this is unacceptable behavior, those not involved come down even harder on those involved.
    By showing outrage at all of the Chinese you are only seeing that you can't segregate the people who make the problems and those who are only following what they are told to do. Those in charge of the government are the ones who are the most to blame along with many of the business leaders who only take advantage of their own people just as in America. I understand your contempt for what is happening in China but it seems that it happens everywhere in the world to a certain degree.

    Greed is everywhere and those who are the most greedy, no matter what country, are the ones who are responsible for the vast amount of societies ills and distress. Greed is an ongoing problem and will continue to be forever I'm afraid. The only thing that can be done is by ourselves, to not be like them, but to try and ask for what is needed in order to have a good life not a greedy one that takes everything and cares for no one.

  8. #8
    Oh dear.

    Quote Originally Posted by WillNever View Post
    Many of us have long debased the country of China and its people as belonging to a degraded culture of cruelty and greed.
    Nice try. It's not just WillNever the racist. It is "many of us". Or maybe you meant "many of us racists".

    If you want greed, just maybe you ought to look a little closer to home. You live somewhere near enough to Wall Street, don't you?

    But your entire post is a grossly unfair racist generalisation anyway. It would be buying into your bullshit to try to put the argument that all Americans are fundamentally greedy and self obsessed, for instance.

    This thread is a shout-out to those people in particular, spurred by the latest shutdown of an innocent thread about an interesting item of Chinese news, titled "China students receive IV infusions to nourish them while studying" which was supposed to demonstrate the dangers of taking educational endeavors to extremes.
    You are referring to another of your thinly-veiled racist threads. It was supposed to convince people that Chinese people belong to a "culture of cruelty", just like the current apologist thread is.

    The thread was inexplicably locked by a moderator after only a few replies and I was labeled as racist against Chinese.
    You didn't understand that it was locked because it was racist crap? I thought I'd made that clear enough even for you to understand. In fact, I believe I even repeated that in the PM I sent you after your whining PM to me about the closure.

    Some of you may be wondering why a high proportion of my threads and discussions deal with China. And just like always, I'll be straight with you. Here are the pure, unadulterated reasons: I don't like the country, I don't like its people in general, and I believe that I have very good reasons for such.
    And there we have it: the classical self-justification of the racist.

    No need to read any further.

  9. #9
    Here are some past words of wisdom from WillNever, for those who may have forgotten.

    Quote Originally Posted by WillNever
    Syria is another foreign shithole full of arabs.
    Quote Originally Posted by WillNever
    Perhaps only in the descendents of Genghis Khan. I'm glad I'm not related to that nasty asian twit. In artistic depictions, he is very ugly.
    Notice how WillNever can't help but put in that Syria is "full of arabs", as if that fact alone makes it the "shithole" he claims it to be.

    And, of course, he is bursting to remind us that Genghis Khan was a nasty Asian man, and a "twit" to boot, apparently. It's a wonder that he managed to conquer the huge territory he did, being the brainless Asian that WillNever tells us he was.

    What's the common message from WillNever? That your race determines whether you're cruel or kind, brainless or intelligent, sophisticated and worldly or a culturally backwards bumpkin. Nothing else really counts. It all comes down to the colour of your skin.

    Sure, WillNever dresses it all up in fancy language, but you only need to scrape the surface slightly to see his constant emphasis on race as a causal factor in everything that is good or bad in the world. Genghis Khan was a twit and a nasty man because he was Asian. Syria owes all of its troubles to the fact that it is occupied by Arabs, of all the hateful things.

    What WillNever needs in his world, he thinks, is more white people just like him. That's what it comes down to. And even though he has never met a Syrian or been to China, he is qualified to label whole countries as inferior to his country, which of course has no problems at all, except perhaps those introduced by that black President who somehow got himself elected recently.

    Recall also that it was WillNever who tried to start up a White Supremacy Social Group on sciforums. I forget exactly what he called it, but make no mistake, that is what it was.

    I think WillNever should get out of his white neighbourhood and meet some coloured people.

  10. #10
    keith1
    Guest
    Ban them for a week for:
    Fine 1--using excessive hate diatribes (while using a Bobby Kennedy avatar--lucky for them it's not a double fine).
    Fine 2--generating excessive cesspool posts (extra moderator time expenditure fine).
    Fine 3--requiring constant reprimanding and showing disregard for such actions (extra moderator time expenditure fine).

    And an extended ban warning, to be implemented upon return, for any continued site usage in the same behavioral vein.
    Last edited by keith1; 05-18-12 at 09:24 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by James R View Post
    I think WillNever should get out of his white neighbourhood and meet some coloured people.
    Not at all. That would help him as much as a gang rape would cure a lesbian woman of her homosexuality.

    While on the surface, it may seem that a person is disgusted by a particular country or people, the reasons are deeper.

    Underlying racism, nationalism, elitism, or any other form of severe judgmentalism etc. is a deep existential problem, similar to the problem of theodicy.

    It can be formulated in questions such as "Given all the horrible things that take place in the world, how can I be safe, how can I be happy, how can I find peace of mind?"
    Everyone wants to be happy, at peace.

    And a person cannot be happy and at peace until they solve that deep existential problem. In the meantime, they may lash out at an individual or a particular group of people, specified by skin color, nationality, actions or any other sign.

  12. #12
    Moderator note: I have changed the title of this thread from "Explaining the disgust toward China" to the more honest "Explaining my disgust towards China".

  13. #13
    keith1
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by wynn View Post
    Not at all. That would help him as much as a gang rape would cure a lesbian woman of her homosexuality.

    While on the surface, it may seem that a person is disgusted by a particular country or people, the reasons are deeper.

    Underlying racism, nationalism, elitism, or any other form of severe judgmentalism etc. is a deep existential problem, similar to the problem of theodicy.

    It can be formulated in questions such as "Given all the horrible things that take place in the world, how can I be safe, how can I be happy, how can I find peace of mind?"
    Everyone wants to be happy, at peace.

    And a person cannot be happy and at peace until they solve that deep existential problem. In the meantime, they may lash out at an individual or a particular group of people, specified by skin color, nationality, actions or any other sign.
    This is a rare and isolated poster case phenomenon, complete with one rare championing voice (wynn). Hardly rates mention as to having larger connotations that can be used as excuses for, what is to the majority, an "undesirable display to drum up empathetic or sympathetic emotions".
    Last edited by keith1; 05-18-12 at 09:37 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by keith1 View Post
    This is a rare and isolated poster case phenomenon, complete with one rare championing voice (wynn). Hardly rates mention as to having larger connotations that can be used as excuses for, what is to the majority, an "undesirable display".
    What are you talking about?

    Do you really think I am excusing his "undesirable display"?

  15. #15
    keith1
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by wynn View Post
    What are you talking about?

    Do you really think I am excusing his "undesirable display"?
    Note my updated statement made before your reply:
    ...undesirable display to drum up empathetic or sympathetic emotions...

  16. #16
    Many approaches to divert people from racism, nationalism, etc. are focusing on the wrong thing - namely on the surface expression, the symptom (ie. racism, nationalism etc.). Which is why such approaches are not particularly effective.

    What ought to be addressed and resolved is the underlying existential problem, the cause.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by keith1 View Post
    Note my updated statement made before your reply:
    ...undesirable display to drum up empathetic or sympathetic emotions...
    You didn't answer my question.
    Do you really think I am excusing his "undesirable display"?


    And of course racists etc. want to "drum up empathetic or sympathetic emotions" - it's what they need to counteract the feeling that they live in a dangerous world in which they feel helpless.

  18. #18
    keith1
    Guest
    You are all wind, wynn. Theodicy indeed.
    This is a mental issue.
    Do you know it has been tested conclusively that one can be forced to smile for five minutes, and within a short amount of time a feeling of euphoria will ensue?
    Last edited by keith1; 05-18-12 at 10:00 AM.

  19. #19
    Let us not launch the boat ... Tiassa's Avatar
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    Cool Mod Hat — Closure

    Mod Hat — Closure

    Quote Originally Posted by WillNever

    So there you have it. Those are my reasons for bashing China.
    Thanks for bringing us up to date. I'm sure someone, somewhere, will find your explanation fascinating.

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