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Thread: The Problem of Time leads to a Problem of Energy for the Universe

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    I think the concept of motion = time is wrong. Perception = time, motion = symmetry.
    X/Y/Z is not symmetrical, it just appears to be symmetrical. IN/OUT makes it symmetrical.

  2. #42
    Valued Senior Member Motor Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    I think the concept of motion = time is wrong. Perception = time, motion = symmetry.
    Who said motion=time?

    It is NOT perception that your car can travel from NY to Florida and the engine run at 2,000 RPM or 4,000 RPM. Given the car has the same total gear ratio, the car gets there in a shorter duration of time at 4,000 RPM. The crank makes the same number of rotations for each from NY to Florida, but the 4,000 RPM engine does it in a shorter amount of time. That is not perception!

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton View Post
    X/Y/Z is not symmetrical, it just appears to be symmetrical. IN/OUT makes it symmetrical.
    Not what I mean't. Motion in General Relativity is a feature of the symmetry of the equations, it is not a true time evolution, hence why motion cannot be equal to time.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Motor Daddy View Post
    Who said motion=time?

    It is NOT perception that your car can travel from NY to Florida and the engine run at 2,000 RPM or 4,000 RPM. Given the car has the same total gear ratio, the car gets there in a shorter duration of time at 4,000 RPM. The crank makes the same number of rotations for each from NY to Florida, but the 4,000 RPM engine does it in a shorter amount of time. That is not perception!
    Time is a subjective phenomenon, it does not apply to the world at large, not as we believe it does, where time has a flow and has a past and future.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Motor Daddy View Post
    There is 4 dimensions, x,y,z, and t. That is, volume and time. You have to start at a location, and a duration of time later you are at an end location, which could be the same location if you didn't travel during that duration of time. You seem to imply an object can be at a location, and at the same time (no elapsed time) be at another location. Prove it. Prove that a point of an object can be at 2 separate locations at the same time, ie, the object is at 2,2,3 at 12:00 and it is also at 45,59,29 at 12:00.
    You can be at two locations if your step distance is large like yours are. Like on stilts, I can cross a distance of grass so that when each of my legs in one in front of the other I am covering so much grass that I am at many locations at once. You have chosen skipping speeds, like skipping a stone across a pond, but your stones skip time.

  6. #46
    Valued Senior Member Motor Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    Time is a subjective phenomenon, it does not apply to the world at large, not as we believe it does, where time has a flow and has a past and future.
    So you say "time flies when you're having fun" and "this day is dragging on and on" are reality? Do you honestly believe that time is slower or faster depending on how much fun you are having? That is your perception. The reality is that the time passes at the EXACT SAME RATE (1 second per second) whether you are sleeping, having a great time, or sitting in prison!

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Motor Daddy View Post
    So you say "time flies when you're having fun" and "this day is dragging on and on" are reality? Do you honestly believe that time is slower or faster depending on how much fun you are having?
    Not in a physical sense, but I have told you that time is not a real feature of the universe at large. One reason we feel time ticking at different rates is because of the Suprachiasmatic Nucleus which regulates the 24 hour perception of time.

    So ask, why is there a specific region in the brain which regulates this, if time was already a feature of the world? Surely there would be no need for such a biological regulation of time if time was a real fascet of reality.

    It stands, time is completely subjective caused by the internal clocks, regulated by the SCN.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    Not what I mean't. Motion in General Relativity is a feature of the symmetry of the equations, it is not a true time evolution, hence why motion cannot be equal to time.
    It doesn't really matter if you remove the word time from your dialect, you have the same problem, that you have minimum step distance. You can't half energy forever in our Universe, you half it, and then drop through a hole.

  9. #49
    Valued Senior Member Motor Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton View Post
    You can be at two locations if your step distance is large like yours are. Like on stilts, I can cross a distance of grass so that when each of my legs in one in front of the other I am covering so much grass that I am at many locations at once. You have chosen skipping speeds, like skipping a stone across a pond, but your stones skip time.
    You are not at many locations at once. At any given time you are at an exact location. Lets say the point you are measuring is the tip of your nose. Your nose starts at a location and ends at a location. Your nose can travel across a lot of grass in a second, or it can remain at the same location. You are measuring the distance your NOSE travels in a duration of time.

    You want to skip stones? You are measuring the distance the stone travels over a duration of time. Stones don;t skip time, stones travel a distance in a duration of time. You are measuring the distance the stone travels from point a to point b, and you are measuring the duration of time it took the stone to get from point a to point b. Two measures, distance and time are separate measures.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Motor Daddy View Post
    You are not at many locations at once. At any given time you are at an exact location. Lets say the point you are measuring is the tip of your nose. Your nose starts at a location and ends at a location. Your nose can travel across a lot of grass in a second, or it can remain at the same location. You are measuring the distance your NOSE travels in a duration of time.

    You want to skip stones? You are measuring the distance the stone travels over a duration of time. Stones don;t skip time, stones travel a distance in a duration of time. You are measuring the distance the stone travels from point a to point b, and you are measuring the duration of time it took the stone to get from point a to point b. Two measures, distance and time are separate measures.
    Let's go with space-time grain, and not the tip of your nose, it's too big. You have speeds in access of space time grain. So somehow you are travelling faster than a minimum distance in the Universe, and that's impossible. You have chosen a speed, and distance where the total exceeds the destination. So you are already there. The tip of your nose is stretched way out into the distance.
    Last edited by Pincho Paxton; 01-11-12 at 12:32 PM.

  11. #51
    Valued Senior Member Motor Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    Not in a physical sense, but I have told you that time is not a real feature of the universe at large.
    Duration doesn't require a massive universe. Distance and time are inevitable. They exist whether we measure them or not. The universe is an infinite volume whether there is mass in that volume or not. You can not do away with volume or distance, it has always and will always exist.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    One reason we feel time ticking at different rates is because of the Suprachiasmatic Nucleus which regulates the 24 hour perception of time.
    We don't feel time ticking at different rates. Time doesn't "tick," it's clocks that "tick."

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    So ask, why is there a specific region in the brain which regulates this, if time was already a feature of the world? Surely there would be no need for such a biological regulation of time if time was a real fascet of reality.
    Your brain doesn't regulate time. 1 second occurs for the entire universe when light travels 299,792,458 meters in a vacuum. Your brain has no clue how to accurately measure time. For that matter, there is no object that can accurately measure time. Time can not be measured 100% accurately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister View Post
    It stands, time is completely subjective caused by the internal clocks, regulated by the SCN.
    It is not subjective. Your brain views time like it does motion. It can't tell if you're coming or going!

  12. #52
    Valued Senior Member Motor Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton View Post
    Let's go with space-time grain, and not the tip of your nose, it's too big. You have speeds in access of space time grain. So somehow you are travelling faster than a minimum distance in the Universe, and that's impossible. You have chosen a speed, and distance where the total exceeds the destination. So you are already there.
    What??

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Motor Daddy View Post
    What??
    C is C because of a minimal distance for a photon to cross a point. 200 times faster than C requires a new space-time fabric 200 times bigger. Now you have also reduced the distance to your location. You have speeds which reduce the distance to your location so that your destination is behind you.

  14. #54
    Valued Senior Member Motor Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton View Post
    C is C because of a minimal distance for a photon to cross a point. 200 times faster than C requires a new space-time fabric.
    Photons don't cross a point, they travel a distance during a duration of time.

    200 times c is 299,792,458*200=59,958,491,600 m/s

    That means if an object were to start traveling at that speed, one second later it would have traveled a distance of 59,958,491,600 meters. That doesn't require a new space time.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Motor Daddy View Post
    Photons don't cross a point, they travel a distance during a duration of time.

    200 times c is 299,792,458*200=59,958,491,600 m/s

    That means if an object were to start traveling at that speed, one second later it would have traveled a distance of 59,958,491,600 meters. That doesn't require a new space time.
    It does. Why do you think that C is a constant? It's due to grain size.

  16. #56
    Valued Senior Member Motor Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton View Post
    It does. Why do you think that C is a constant? It's due to grain size.
    Light travels at a constant speed in a vacuum. It doesn't get slower or faster, it travels the same speed. So, if you marked off a vacuum like a ruler, no matter which point in the vacuum you use as a starting line, the light will always travel the same distance in the same duration of time as it would from any other point in the vacuum. It's like saying your car always travels at a constant speed on the highway. If your car always traveled at a constant speed we could use your car to define the meter.

    Light travels at a constant speed in a vacuum. We define the meter using the constancy of the speed of light.

    Do you understand the speed of light is defined, not measured?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Motor Daddy View Post
    Light travels at a constant speed in a vacuum. It doesn't get slower or faster, it travels the same speed. So, if you marked off a vacuum like a ruler, no matter which point in the vacuum you use as a starting line, the light will always travel the same distance in the same duration of time as it would from any other point in the vacuum. It's like saying your car always travels at a constant speed on the highway. If your car always traveled at a constant speed we could use your car to define the meter.

    Light travels at a constant speed in a vacuum. We define the meter using the constancy of the speed of light.

    Do you understand the speed of light is defined, not measured?
    You weren't using the speed of light though. You were turning a vacuum into a vacuum + 10^5,000 vacuums. So that you jump right over where you want to get to. You created a big bubble with your destination inside it, and you're inside it, so you are both at a single location.
    Last edited by Pincho Paxton; 01-11-12 at 01:07 PM.

  18. #58
    Valued Senior Member Motor Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton View Post
    You weren't using the speed of light though. You were turning a vacuum into a vacuum - 2000 vacuums.
    Light travel time defines the meter. Look it up!

    If light is traveling in a vacuum, when one second has elapsed light traveled 299,792,458 meters, BY DEFINITION!

    If you marked the position of the light after one second and performed the test again, light would be at the exact same spot after one second every time you performed the test. It's like a car that always runs 4 seconds in the 1/4 mile. No matter how many times the car runs down the track it is always at the finish line after 4 seconds.

    Since you know that light will always end up 299,792,458 meters away after 1 second has elapsed you can now race a 200c object against light.

    Ready, go! When the 200c object is at the 299,792,458 meter mark, the light has only traveled 1/200 the distance in the same amount of time.

  19. #59
    ''We don't feel time ticking at different rates. ''

    And on motor daddy's words of wisdom, I now depart from the thread. Maybe tomorrow won't be such a long day

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Motor Daddy View Post
    Light travel time defines the meter. Look it up!

    If light is traveling in a vacuum, when one second has elapsed light traveled 299,792,458 meters, BY DEFINITION!

    If you marked the position of the light after one second and performed the test again, light would be at the exact same spot after one second every time you performed the test. It's like a car that always runs 4 seconds in the 1/4 mile. No matter how many times the car runs down the track it is always at the finish line after 4 seconds.

    Since you know that light will always end up 299,792,458 meters away after 1 second has elapsed you can now race a 200c object against light.

    Ready, go! When the 200c object is at the 299,792,458 meter mark, the light has only traveled 1/200 the distance in the same amount of time.
    So.. you said 10^5,000 times the speed of light, and it has nothing to do with the speed of light.

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