Electric cars are a pipe dream

[Syzygys]

EVs can fill a large niche defined by their range and time to recharge. Their range has indeed improved dramatically per pound of battery storage in the last 100 years.

1. You guys should decide if EV are a niche market or an ICE replacement.
2. Since the average car also got heavier, the average RANGE hasn't improved in 100 years...

[Syzygys]

Well, for $3,500.00 brand new, my brother got a zap electric pickup truck, 2 seater. For an extra $600 or so he installed an extra battery.

Well, I guess then thread closed. We just have to wait until the American public starts to buy that one...

Do you have a pic of that one?

[Syzygys]

A subsidy very well may save money

Well, then instead of subsidizing personal EVs, why not build a citywide trolleybus system, which is electric and subsidize that as mass transportation???



or

[BWE1]

Well, I guess then thread closed. We just have to wait until the American public starts to buy that one...

Do you have a pic of that one?

well, here's a youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEfD0HTBHZ4

btw, just saw this appropriate smiley:

[BWE1]

so, yeah. And the electric boat will never replace the supertankers. Or airplanes for that matter.

[BWE1]

I'm not saying those things won't work for everyone, but when they appeared in Portland, some people bought them, and I used to see them stranded on the side of the road, out of power. EVs still aren't there yet, but they may be in 10 years. I think the most serious problem with them is that they still encourage car dependency and a development pattern that is not sustainable.

heh. I'm in Portland too. And I also agree with this assessment. However, what they can do it take a 2 car family and replace one with a little guy like that or some suitable facsimile for a far lower impact than what we have now.

Also, they are damned easy to fix. There are something like 24 moving parts.
If you aren't handy then I dunno, it could suck. My only point isw that the premise of the thread is flawed. Replacing isn't the only option.

[Skeptical]

And I am still seeing the naysayers arguing on the basis of the assumption that nothing will improve.

Ev's will be a minor form of transport for some time to come - probably about 20 years. In that 20 year period, there will be major changes in technology. The big changes will be in battery technology. One new area of development is nanotechnology. The speed at which batteries can be recharged depends to a great deal on the surface area of battery terminals. That surface area is now set to massively increase with nanotech particles all over the surface.

I have shown in my previous reference how new technology can lead to rapid recharge batteries. New work will also create batteries with massively greater capacity.
http://www.gizmag.com/carbon-nanotub...apacity/15716/

I have also seen the argument that it is dangerous to recharge next to a fuel pump. So what? There is absolutely no need whatever to put recharge facilities next to fuel pumps. I can envisage a roadside business that is primarily a cafe, but has a bunch of electric recharge points in the car park. Credit card activated. Real easy!

Frankly, the assumption that ev's cannot be made practical, in spite of the exciting battery research already under way, is just plain idiotic. Sure it will take time. But 20 years should see new ev's that are fully competitive with ICE's. And they will be cheaper to run, maintain, and repair, quiet and emission free.

[BWE1]

that too. Battery tech, and any number of other techs will definitely make it better than now, and now they are useful if only for certain niches.

[adoucette]

1. You guys should decide if EV are a niche market or an ICE replacement.
2. Since the average car also got heavier, the average RANGE hasn't improved in 100 years...

Nope, you want to make it an All or Nothing issue and it simply isn't.
There are ~235 million 2 axle/4 tire vehicles in the US and if only 20% are replaced by EVs over the next 20 years, that's still ~ 50 million vehicles.
Which is HUGE.

As to range, the correct metric of improvement is the one I used, range per pound of battery storage. We could build EVs with longer range if we wanted to, but range decisions are made based primaily on average need, not technology.

Arthur

[spidergoat]

Here is an interesting gas-electric hybrid. Maybe GM can come out with something like this in 10 years...

[BWE1]

Is that some futuristic use of sarcasm?

[spidergoat]

It even has AWD!

[Billy T]

... And where will they get the fuel to power all these cars?

(1)They have a lot of it already under long term contracts. For example (and it is only one of many) the 10 billion they lent to Brazil's PetroBras is to be repaid in oil shipments. I forget for how many years, but seem to recall 20 years. I also recall doing calcualtion that they were paying less than $50/barrel* (again I forget computed number, but both years abd it have been posted)

(2) They have the cash to buy oil, not yet under delivery contracts, away from broke USA.

------------
*That is not the great bargain it seems as they paid now and on average get repaid only 10 years form now - you can work out what much higher price paid then, when delivered, would discount to now.

[Billy T]

Well, then instead of subsidizing personal EVs, why not build a citywide trolleybus system, which is electric and subsidize that as mass transportation??? ...

Good point and high speed rail for longer travel distances, as China is doing.

Rational as that may be, Joe American's identity is wrapped up in his car. He will want one of his own, even when the price of gasoline forces him to keep it in the garage.


BTW, quite a few of the bus lines in Sao Paulo are electric bus lines like in your photo (Rubber tires that can move to either side of a one-way street.)

[ElectricFetus]

Well, then instead of subsidizing personal EVs, why not build a citywide trolleybus system, which is electric and subsidize that as mass transportation???



or

Totally for it, why don't they?

so, yeah. And the electric boat will never replace the supertankers. Or airplanes for that matter.

No, we are talking about Electric Cars, unlike airplanes their power per weight ratios and ranges of average travel are viable to electric batteries. As for shipping due to distance traveled of-course batteries are not viable.

[spidergoat]

Gas prices aren't high enough yet to make public transportation sexy.

[BWE1]

I tax max trains here in portland fairly regularly,.

[Skeptical]

Of course, the reality is that in 20 years, there will be a variety of methods of getting around. From electric public transport, to electric battery operated private cars, to biofuels, synthetic fuels, still lots of fossil fuels, fuel cells and so on. Anyone who focusses exclusively on one approach and rejects other approaches is as wrong as he/she can be.

[spidergoat]

I tax max trains here in portland fairly regularly,.

Portland is a rare bubble of sanity. I just hope they bring the Max out to Milwaukie.

[BWE1]

me too. Just down McLaughlin to downtown would be good.