Female Genital Mutilation: An Islamic Practice

Sam, you've demonstrated that you will go on and on spamming the board with pro-islamic religious cult defense to the end, so I won't pretend that I can keep up with your spam. I will, however, point out that you are demonstrably ignorant of the topic, though perhaps you will be educated as the thread develops. I'm sure you'll find a few sources here and there as you look into it. But this is a phenomenon that I studied a bit.

I'm not sure what it is, specifically, that you're arguing against here, since you haven't exactly been clear (true to your form when you debate... you seek argument not facts or education).

But if you're contention is that the practice isn't one supported by the cult of islam, then you are completely and utterly wrong. Indeed, I'll quote the Muslim Womens' League:

And, according to :

I haven't accessed the links in over two years, but perhaps they're still active. I'll include them in the references.

References:

Abu-Sahlieh, Sami A. Aldeed (2005) Muslims' Genitalia in the Hands of the Clergy: Religious Arguments about Male and Female Circumcision 1998 [accessed 4/8/2005]. Available from http://www.lpj.org/Nonviolence/Sami/articles/eng-articles/Gentalia.htm.

Muslim Women's League (2005). Female Genital Mutilation. Muslim Women's League 1999 [accessed 4/8/2005]. Available from http://mwlusa.org/topics/violence&harrassment/fgm.html.

 

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You're quoting religious leaders (in Islam there are no religious leaders, except perhaps in Iran) and oral traditions collected 100 years after Mohammed died, from a translation of a translation to support your hypothesis?

People use this kind of reasoning to take advantage of the ignorant. If it was Islamic, you'd also find it in the educated, like male circumcision, which is required for Muslim men.

And, your links don't work.

Please educate me how your Bedouin information is more current than that on the Egyptians and Pitta-Patta aborigines.

 

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Some more interesting background:

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~ehtoddch/politics/historyfgm.html

References
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~ehtoddch/politics/references.html

 

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M*W: Great to hear from you!

Yes, I agree that FGM, also called "female circumcision" and "female castration," and "female clitoraldectomy." It is the most barbaric form of female slavery and child abuse. It has always been my stance that females were the first slaves. In fact, many of these young girls die from infections that arise from the use of non-sterile surgical objects like sharpened rocks, bones and rusty metals. Here is an article based on Muslim thoughts about FGM.

http://www.islamic-world.net/sister/h6.htm

 

Being Muslims, we have the right to defend unfair portrayals of our religion. Apparently your studies didn't go far enough, this practice is forbidden in Islam and I will prove it.

Personal attacks from a moderator. How disturbing.

And what exactly is the Muslim Womens' League? Are they a reliable source to use to make a generalization against Islam?

Also the hadith you quoted is da'eef which means weak. The fiqh scholars have deemed this hadith as fabricated.

Please study harder.

As for the rest of the people on this forum who wish to provide proof it is acceptable in Islam. Provide a clear fatwa from a major scholar, preferably from either Al Azhar or Madinah University.

Being a Muslim, I have studied this and asked many of my teachers who have deemed this act haram (unlawful) in Islam.

 

there is nothing in the quran about this it had nothing to do with islam it was practiced before islam and when islam entered areas people kept on doing it

 

Those that adhere to Islamic superstition may not want to accept that FGM is an Islamic cultural tradition, but they can do little to rebuke it, particularly since there is so much written within Islamic literature about it. I fixed the link in my previous post by adding a link from the Internet Archive, but I'll re-link the citations here as well.

Abu-Sahlieh is actually arguing against the notion that FGM or even male circumcision is necessary under Islam and cites several reasons why. But he also acknowledges the reasons that Islam has embraced circumcision to date, a very objective and reasoned process of speaking out against it -unlike several of those that adhere to Islamic superstition here.

Here are some additional quotes from the paper I cited in my previous post here, which demonstrate the Islamic embracement of FGM. I'll include Abu-Sahlieh's original citations:

In another paper, Abu-Sahlieh (2002) cites data that supports the assertion that FGM is primarily propagated by Muslim cults, though it is also a travisty committed by Jewish and Christian cults to a much lesser degree.

Like DiamondHearts mentioned, the hadith quoted by the Muslim Women's League is a weak hadith, and the League can be quoted, "[t]his is known to be a "weak" hadith in that it does not meet the strict criteria to be considered unquestionable..."

The MWL isn't arguing that Islam is wrong since it justifies FGM. Its arguing that Islam is right and those that use weak hadiths and vague koranic references are wrong. I cited the work to demonstrate that there are those that use Islam as an excuse to practice FGM.

Whether members of Islamic cults chose to admit it or not, their cult is a source of attrocity. Religious nutters in Islam are using Islam to justify torturing young girls. It is definitely *not* a practice with Islamic origin when examined closely, but a practice that is justified by many -not just a few- who call themselves Muslim.

References:

Abu-Sahlieh, Sami A. Aldeeb (2002). Male and Female Circumcision: the Myth of the Difference. [accessed 6/15/2007] www.lpj.org/Nonviolence/Sami/articles/eng-articles/myth.htm [via Internet Archive].

Abu-Sahlieh, Sami A. Aldeed (2005) Muslims' Genitalia in the Hands of the Clergy: Religious Arguments about Male and Female Circumcision 1998 [accessed 4/8/2005]. Available from http://www.lpj.org/Nonviolence/Sami/articles/eng-articles/Gentalia.htm [via Internet Archive].

Muslim Women's League (1999). Female Genital Mutilation. Muslim Women's League 1999 [accessed 6/13/2007]. Available from http://mwlusa.org/topics/violence&harrassment/fgm.html.

References [from Abu-Sahlieh]:

Adawi, Abd-al-Rahman: Khitan al-banat, in: Abd-al-Raziq, Abu-Bakr: Al-khitan, ra'y al-din wal-'ilm fi khitan al-awlad wal-banat, Dar Al-i'tisam, Cairo, 1989, pp. 97-98.

Arnus, Mahmud: Khitan al-banat, in: Abd-al-Raziq, Abu-Bakr: Al-khitan, ra'y al-din wal-'ilm fi khitan al-awlad wal-banat, Dar Al-i'tisam, Cairo, 1989, pp. 91-94.

Salim, Muhammad Ibrahim: Khitan al-banat, in: Abd-al-Raziq, Abu-Bakr: Al-khitan, ra'y al-din wal-'ilm fi khitan al-awlad wal-banat, Dar Al-i'tisam, Cairo, 1989, pp. 81-82.

Jad-al-Haq, Jad-al-Haq Ali: Khitan al-banat, in: Al-fatawi al-islamiyyah min dar al-ifta' al-masriyyah, Wazarat al-awqaf, Cairo, vol. 9, 1983, pp. 3119-3125.

[1] Ad hoc working group of international experts on violations of genital mutilation, POB 197, Southfields, New York 10975, USA.

[2] Mutilations sexuelles f'minines: dossier d'information, WHO, Geneva (1994); Toubia, Nahid; Izett, S: Female genital mutilation, an overview, WHO, Geneva, 1998.

[3] Egypt Demographic and Health Survey 1995, National Population Council, Cairo, September 1996; Le Monde, 26 June 1997, p. 3.

 

are you stupid or something it tends to be culturally accepted by groupd that tend to be muslim but islam says nothing about. you cannot rationally atribute fgm to islam in areas when it was practiced before islam existed. just be cause the two tend to appear together doesn't mean one caused the other or vice versa

 

apparently we are expected to belief that it is not an islamic practice, much like we are expected to believe that Aisha was actually 16, not 9 years old, when Mohammed the prophet first penetrated her.

 

I should add here that despite having full respect for those who were circumcised (it wasn't their decision), i am also strongly against the practice of male genital mutilation, and believe that those who continue to practice it today should be imprisoned.

 

You are only expected to use reason (as in the case of Aisha) and aim for resolution of an issue . Many women in those countries do not even recognise the issue.

Skanky.

 

What do you mean by skanky, it seems out of context? S.A.M

Why did you change your title? ha ha ha...SPAM

What would you change mine to?

 

Its not practised by educated Muslims except perhaps Egyptians since it seems about 97% of the women over there have undergone FGM and women who do not undergo it are considered masculine.

All Islamic scholarly research is cited for accuracy; all educated Muslims recognise and understand this fact.

 

Thats terrible.

 

I love how people can justify pedophilia and child mutilation in the name of religion. Sis.

 

Its not a question of justification; its a question of cultural sensitivity

Culturally insensitive measures do not work

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=8736673&dopt=Abstract

Bringing religion into it only complicates the issue even further.

 

FGM

Female Genital Mutilation

Somehow you cannot put a positive spin on that one.

 

i dont care why its done, it just shouldnt be!!

do these people have somthing against female orgasms?
also the men will somtimes sow the woman up when he goes away to make sure she doesnt stray while he is away, and when he comes back he will rip her open with a knife.

 

No one is putting a spin on it. Addressing the issue is important, and if educated people overlook the impact of culture, it will only push it underground.

 

oh, your killing me this morning

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