Crushing Dreams

After amusing myself with various WANDERER posts I realized a certain trend that people were using to attack him. The bulk of the attacks were conformity based calls to 'step in line' or 'give up'. It is the antithesis to everything I was raised on: individuality, creativity, motivation, respect. What I find in this forum is the opposite of true western values, what I find is the admittance of defeat and the need to make others feel defeated. It is to crush the spirit of imagination, rebellion, conquest, and creation. Members are not allowed to hold ANY ideals, any goals, or any dreams outside of pointless consumption. Members can complain about the 'unfairness' of the world ("Oh, those darn libertarians, GWB he is so mean" "No blood for oil", blah blah), but the minute anyone talks about changing the world, they must be attacked: "Hastien, you are complaining like a five year old, just grow up, the world will never change." I remember Bells even telling people that their existence meant absolutely NOTHING, that the worth of a person was zero. Talk about motivational, I'd love to have her as a teacher, mother, or president. Nihilism in it's purest form!"

What becomes of this all? The utter hatred for the human spirit. Tell your child that s/he should not be an astronaut, a lawyer, a leader. Is that not what it amounts to?

If you don't agree with someone, JUST SAY YOU DON'T. Why must you construct a transparent argument as to why they are wrong? ("Oh shut up, you sound like a teenage-rebel poser. Life isn't fair, so what, grow up. You're just mad because your dick is small.")

Is this a place of philosophy, art, science, religion, nature, and idealism, or is it a place to throw insults onto others for no reason than raising self-esteem?
If it is the later, I'll leave.

It's the latter.
To an extent, we non-herd members do it too.

Is this a place of philosophy, art, science, religion, nature, and idealism, or is it a place to throw insults onto others for no reason than raising self-esteem?

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I think you just summed up the problem alot of posters have with the "WANDERER". He makes some very valid points, but they're buried beneath the muck of his self-grandizing rants.

and no doubt the drama queen hastein also has points to make. he however, as with the greek, chooses to camouflage in hysterical and overly dramatic rhetoric.

one can only wonder at the narcissism that motivates these two

hastein, you claim to be a intelligence analyst. i reccommend a new line of work.

Xev said:

It's the latter.
To an extent, we non-herd members do it too.

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if you stop rebelling in such predictable ways perhaps you might get some frikkin respect. all humans eventually get recycled. the non herd also follow predictable patterns. you are simply too stupid to see that

What becomes of this all? The utter hatred for the human spirit. Tell your child that s/he should not be an astronaut, a lawyer, a leader. Is that not what it amounts to?

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Their ideas wouldn't be met with so much opposition if they came off atleast somewhat humble. Do not get influenced by a few threads constaining a few arguments with pompous psuedo-intellectuals. Trust me I have seen members get treated with courtesy and respect by those who do not hold themselves above humanity, unfortunetly those do not post enough. Wanderer gets insults and contempt thrown his way because he acts the same way as like to describe others, as a "manchild". You have chosen to paint out an image of this place through negative instances whereas this place has a lot to offer once you can get past the idiocy disguised as civilized conversation.

Is this a place of philosophy, art, science, religion, nature, and idealism,

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We are the ones who shape this place...

or is it a place to throw insults onto others for no reason than raising self-esteem?

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...and this is what many of us choose to shape it into.

You all make valid points.

Trust me I have seen members get treated with courtesy and respect by those who do not hold themselves above humanity, unfortunetly those do not post enough

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I am more than willing to give this place a chance, but I have only had a bad impression in the time that I have been here.

I would agree that WANDERER holds himself in a very superior light and he makes some rather boasterous comments (most of it is probably him simply amusing himself, so I would take it with a smile.) Still, what do we really know about wanderer, for all we know he IS everything he claims to be. He sounds sincere from my personal experience, thus I don't blame him for looking down on you all. He has an ideal that not everyone agrees with, which makes people uncomfortable. I'm not worried about that, I'm worried about the contempt people have towards people with vision, purpose, and expectations. I see it everyday among my friends and associates: symptoms of Gen X, "why bother? why strive?". It is chilidish. There is an entire universe out there, why do people choose such passive behavior? If you would like to remain sedated, why tell others that they should too?

if you stop rebelling in such predictable ways perhaps you might get some frikkin respect. all humans eventually get recycled. the non herd also follow predictable patterns. you are simply too stupid to see that

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I don't deny collective behavior, I would be a complete idiot if I did. I don't see teenage rebellion in this, I see real concern for real issues. I don't know Xev that well, so perhaps she is the pseudo-rebel you speak of, maybe not. I just grow tired of one place after another turning out to be some zoo where the main issues of the day are "What is your cock size?" "Did you see the new Brad Pit movie?" "Top 10 dating tips" "No blood for oil".

I see it everyday among my friends and associates: symptoms of Gen X, "why bother? why strive?". It is chilidish. There is an entire universe out there, why do people choose such passive behavior? If you would like to remain sedated, why tell others that they should too?

perhaps you confuse generational issues with others that are not constrained by time. perhaps you are a unwitting victim of a particular period and its expression. perhaps you think that is the only way. or maybe you are a culturally hidebound individual that lacks imagination

either way, looking at the big picture, i see remarkable momentum. in light of that, rather than whine, offer practical solutions for percieved problems

I just grow tired of one place after another turning out to be some zoo where the main issues of the day are "What is your cock size?" "Did you see the new Brad Pit movie?" "Top 10 dating tips" "No blood for oil".

if you are unable or unwilling to effect a change, you become part of this "problem." you cannot saunter in and expect to be served an utopia.

now start some cutting edge threads

perhaps you confuse generational issues with others that are not constrained by time. perhaps you are a unwitting victim of a particular period and its expression. perhaps you think that is the only way. or maybe you are a culturally hidebound individual that lacks imagination

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All true. I have no doubts that there are extremely bright individuals out there, they are probably the ones running our world. What I fear is the dysgenic behaviors of the underlings, the ones who actually run the world.

hastein
i do not know how it happens but in spite of our stupidity, we make progress.
if we do have these "elders" that make policy, i think we would be sitting real pretty. since that is not the case, its a matter of taking a step forward without taking two back. we bumble along

* what up with my pathetic little metaphors! barf!

Wanderer sure sounds like an unorthodox objectivist. I'll look into some of his posts and
see what I find...

I like your (but you can't spell your without our ) cause, Hastein: keep at it. Someday, we'll win

It is chilidish. There is an entire universe out there, why do people choose such passive behavior? If you would like to remain sedated, why tell others that they should too?

I do not tell others what to do, have no intention to since I am no authority on anything.

He sounds sincere from my personal experience, thus I don't blame him for looking down on you all.

You made your own point moot. Sincere people aren't so naive as to look down upon others because their ideology is superior than others...ideology is simple that...ideology, not a measuring stick of one's superiority.

I'm not worried about that, I'm worried about the contempt people have towards people with vision, purpose, and expectations.

This is where you refuse to read...their problem is with his insults and his all too apperant arrogance in his intelligence. I do not have a problem with him because a lot of what he says is true, I admire his ideas in that regards but when he becomes overbearing with his observations (the retarded Bob thread) that is when others have issues with him.

I'm not worried about that, I'm worried about the contempt people have towards people with vision, purpose, and expectations.

...and you refuse to look deeper into what those visions really are. Go into Pseudoscience and see how many claim they have been visited by martians while not providing a semblence of truth in those claims. Go to general science and see how many believe they have designed machines that work on 100% effiency and produce unlimited power but asked to pur forth proof and the speculators get called names of "ignorant", "narrowminded", "Blind"....

It still does not justify name calling or attacks on character but that is where you mature demeanor comes in. Despite what you find to be a cornocopia of dream cushing peasents and devils, the real haughty and brazen onesare the types you defend.

damn
i swear i can see sarge's neurons making new and exciting connections. bravo.
you grow right before my eyes

Hastein - you said "What I fear is the dysgenic behaviors of the underlings, the ones who actually run the world."

Those guys don't run the world; don't confuse them with anyone else. When you look at your TV and see cough syrup commercials with fat balding loser men married to gorgeous looking women, that's because the advertising company wants you to feel bad about yourself.

When you come to Sciforums and people start calling you a rat bastard because you don't think a space elevator is a good idea, that's because we're all basically crazy homeless people yelling at you on the street. Here we're only related to the mass media inasmuch as we choose to be or are involuntarily influenced by it.

We sure as hell don't run the world.

And I think some people took offense to Wanderer when he called them fat/naive/hidebound. Sticks and stones and all that, but he can get pretty annoying when he gets on a tear.

We all have our views on many subjects. What is important is to be able to change those views if we are given certain facts that make those views obsolete. When people are presented with certain facts sometimes they just cast them aside and still adhere to their own past views no matter what the actual facts are. Anyone that will alter their perception of what they precieve reality to be when confronted with opposite facts are the ones that will grow and adapt well to their surroundings. Many however stick to their views and never want to "see" anyone elses points of views because they cannot accept differences in their worlds. Some here want to think that everyone else is either against them or somehow they are always correct in their opinions of others. Until you can actually understand someone elses motives you cannot catagorize them into a pigonhole of life.

The internet is a mask for us all to hide behind, some use it to insult others, some use it for something else. Bottom line is everybody is fairly anonymous, sitting behind there keyboad doing what ever that pleases them, with out facing the person they are communicating with personaly.

What ever peoples goals are. I think the internet eather brings out the worst or the best in people(disclaim: people with intensions of trolling not included)

Hello.

I am fairly new here and was rather taken aback by the hostility of Wanderer's rant. I made a modest attempt to make a comment on it and his reply was even farther off base than his original assertion. I personally didn't come here for Close Encounters of the Trollish Kind, so I decided just to drop it and move to other areas of this forum that appeal to me.

sargentlard said:

Wanderer gets insults and contempt thrown his way because he acts the same way as like to describe others, as a "manchild".

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Mostly what bothered me was his baiting spookz as hard as he could and claiming others just wanted to hear themselves talk. But isn't that exactly what Wanderer is doing himself? He starts by saying he will never post a reply, but then posts on every page.

Anyhow, I am not saying Wanderer doesn't have some points to make, he just does it with overt hostility and egging others on with personal attacks. Not interested in that game, I came here to discuss science related issues. So you might still see me around from time to time, just not in these sections.

Silverback: Wanderer is easy to avoid. He tends to stick to his own threads.

(Free Thoughts isn't much of a forum anyway, the science fora are a little better for actual substance. The extreme hostility tends to go on in Free Thoughts, World Events and Politics, General Philosophy, and Pseudoscience.)

As for replying when he said he wouldn't... it's not unusual to go back to a thread after you said you weren't going to participate. It's not really a sign of a lack of integrity or anything.

All I can say for the rest is don't let it bother you. Sometimes the dogs fight, and sometimes they sleep. Wanderer likes to claim that he controls others, but really this is all just a game of checkers to pass the time.

That's why you go to the science threads, 'cause then you can actually learn things. (Sometimes.)

You made your own point moot. Sincere people aren't so naive as to look down upon others because their ideology is superior than others...ideology is simple that...ideology, not a measuring stick of one's superiority.

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Oh, it's not huh? . I'll throw my history books out the window.

Mostly what bothered me was his baiting spookz as hard as he could and claiming others just wanted to hear themselves talk.

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I understand his frustration, but Spookz never responded with any input of value.

Those guys don't run the world; don't confuse them with anyone else. When you look at your TV and see cough syrup commercials with fat balding loser men married to

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That's not what I mean. I'm speaking of the people around us who go to work everday and run our country through their contribution.

Anyhow, I am not saying Wanderer doesn't have some points to make, he just does it with overt hostility and egging others on with personal attacks

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Agreed. He is very hostile and that puts most people off. A wise person should see past the hostility to the points that are made, ignoring the insults.

We sure as hell don't run the world.

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YES YOU DO! This is a representitive democracy, now take some responsibility. This is what pisses me off, the American "I'm not responsible for my own government" nihilistic attitude.

I do not tell others what to do, have no intention to since I am no authority on anything.

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I'm talking about those who promote defeat and conformity. "Give up" "You're dreaming". Nature favors competition, not conformity. Competition turns the wheels of history.

i do not know how it happens but in spite of our stupidity, we make progress.

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More nihilism. It's like putting people in a group where each guy thinks that the other guy will do the work for him and nothing gets done.

I don't live in America, and your government does not run the world.