NaGTOW: It's not funny — Rape Advocacy and the Right Wing [Content Advisory]

billvon said:
Of course. No one disputes that.

It's a example.

I agree 100%. If someone says "women should be raped" or anything directly advocating for such things, no problems. (Or advocating for any crime.)

The problems arise (IMO) when you set the bar to "anything less than that, shouldn't get a pass." How about men who say that some women claim they were raped when they weren't? Or women who say that? Or people who think the penalties for rape are too harsh? Or people who say "well, in case X, the guy is the victim!"

The issue for me is that while I would likely have a problem personally with such statements, I don't think such statements should be banned from the internet.
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Gotcha. You weren't very clear earlier, billvon. lol

I don't think that those examples are necessarily examples of rape ''apologies.'' Men being convicted in the ''court of public opinion'' without due process of law simply based on an accusation, and people thinking that rape penalties are too harsh, aren't really what I was thinking in terms of rape apologist examples. That could just be a simple discussion between two people around the topic of rape, but no one is advocating for it.

Rape apologists in my opinion, are typically men who don't really understand rape; they don't see it as an act of power and violence, and some believe that women want to be raped...no means yes, and all that. They believe that consent isn't necessary, etc.

So, I wouldn't stifle free speech to discuss matters dealing with rape (and yes, there are two sides to every story), even if I might not agree with the sentiments. But, your examples aren't what I was thinking of.
 
James R said:
If the neo-Nazis all suddenly decide to become celibate, that can only be a good thing. In a generation or two, no more neo-Nazis!
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Well, thanks to incels, this now makes ... I mean ... I encountered this before with the Tea Party.

¡Achtung!: The unfortunate requisite disclaimer is that of course it's offensive; it certainly wasn't meant to impress the ladies.

incelsco-20190930-tweet-incelsjewsmodernera-detail.png

(No, really, back in 2010↗, some Tea Partiers held a rally in Yakima, and a reporter picked up some video of a guy explaining how President Obama was Hitler. But it was only after the article was published that someone pointed out a detail in a photograph from the same rally, a magic-marker yarmulke accusing Sen. Patty Murray [D-WA] of being Jewish, because, you know, if Obama is Hitler, then the Democrats are Jews, or, rather, so goes our American right wing.)

We should probably also remember that incels include among their numbers men who simply aren't getting enough sex, or not getting good enough sex, or not getting sex with good enough women. The obvious point, here, is that some dude grumbling cold fish about his girlfriend suddenly becomes a suspected incel, and if I say they should ask suspected Jews how that went in '39, there must be a few who survived, and still live today. It's probably not a standard men really want incels setting for them.

Hey, remember that joke about how chivalry is dead because feminism killed it, and the feminist response is to spread hands in wonder and remind, well, yes, that was the point, after all?

Before incels decide this or that is the hill in which they should plant a flag and declare themselves ready to die, they should probably stop and consider the point at which all the men who are getting some will say, "Yeah, y'know, fuck off, 'cause I'm getting some, and listening to you just makes me a suspected wannabe terrorist."

Because let's face it, if incels decide to literally die on that hill, even the guys who think she's boring in the sack are still getting some, and when given a choice between revolution and getting laid, they'll do what they can to keep getting laid and leave the incels to die.

Because other people just don't believe in mass murder the way incels like to pretend. The rest of society is happy enough to leave those wankers to themselves; it'll be a badge of honor when their incel COD is, "stroked out". We can have his angry cock when we pry it out of his cold, dead, hand, which is fine with us because we don't really want it, anyway.

Still, maybe some of them will come to terms with themselves and come out of the closet. You know, like, however many years into the circle jerk. I mean, you gotta think there must be at least one or two useful dicks in the bag.

†​

At the intersection of humor stupid and dangerous is trying to laugh at the incels who are suddenly outraged that their trolling resulted in actual security warnings:

The U.S. military has warned service members about the potential for a mass shooter at screenings of the Warner Bros. film Joker, which has sparked wide concerns from, among others, the families of those killed during the 2012 mass shooting in Aurora, Colorado.

The U.S. Army confirmed on Tuesday that the warning was widely distributed after social media posts related to extremists classified as "incels," were uncovered by intelligence officials at the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

In a September 18th email, service members were instructed to remain aware of their surroundings and "identify two escape routes" when entering theaters. In the event of a shooting, they were instructed to "run, hide, fight" ....

.... The Army said it became aware of potential threats after receiving a bulletin from the FBI, but that it was unaware of any specific plots or suspects. The notice, which was marked "For Official Use Only," was relayed purely as a precautionary measure, it said.

A separate memo, issued on Monday by senior officials in the U.S. Army's criminal investigation division, stated that the Army had obtained "credible" intelligence from Texas law enforcement officials pertaining to "disturbing and very specific chatter" on the dark web "regarding the targeting of an unknown movie theater during the release."

(Cameron↱)​

Futrelle↱, meanwhile, notes of the incel reaction:

On Incels.co—the biggest online incel hangout outside of Reddit, where the regulars talk and joke openly about carrying out similar attacks all the time—commenters are crying foul, complaining that it's unfair to incels for the Army to warn anyone about possible attacks by incels. Even though the people engaged in the "disturbing and very specific chatter" that led to the warning were apparently incels and the movie in question apperently portrays the Joker as something of an incel.

"Huh…we raise our voices a little and everyone loses their minds, imagine if we actually do something," wrote an extremely prolific Incels.co commenter called JeffGoldblumInTheFly, with more than 6000 comments to his name, apparently forgetting about all the times incels have done "somenthing."

So this is how normies want it, they won't help us, they won't try to change this rotten society to welcome us just a little, no… they will create narratives to make us monsters, they will make people believe we are the next ISIS, even tho all the attacks and mass shootings had nothing to do with incels, but someone need to be the scapegoat, might as well use the ugly one, right?​

A commenter called wizardcel, identifying himself as a "transager, lolicon and anti [age of consent] advocate," added

hahahaha. Guys who can't get laid are extremists, What a time to be alive. It's like we're living in an alternate reality.​

A commenter calling himself feces demanded that the military take action against … young girls.

To the intelligence officials reading this comment in the board room, can you take action on the degeneracy young girls are taking part in? Why cant our modern nation ensure a hard working young man gets the chance at creating a family and having someone to love?​

In another thread on the same topic, the incels.co regulars blamed the media for writing about incels in the first place.

"Just lol, at this point it just feels like the media actively want [a shooting] to happen and are desperately pushing this idea to get someone to do it," wrote one site mod.​

Still, I just don't know what to say about the part where they get into a fight↱ about how good or bad looking Elliot Rodger was.
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Notes:

@Incels.co. "Incels are literally the jews of the modern era". Twitter. 30 September 2019.

Cameron, Dell. "U.S. Military Issues Warning to Troops About Incel Violence at Joker Screenings [Updated]". io9. 24 September 2019. io9.Gizmodo.com. 1 October 2019. http://bit.ly/2n0onD0

Futrelle, David. "Incels cry foul after the US Army warns service members about possible incel attacks on Joker movie screenings". We Hunted the Mammoth. 25 September 2019. WeHuntedTheMammoth.com. 1 October 2019. http://bit.ly/2mgD44S
 
While it is easy enough to make jokes about NaGTOW, we really should not overlook the overlap when it shows through so blatantly:

A neo-Nazi who killed at least two people after attacking a synagogue in Germany broadcast his rampage on the Twitch live-streaming video platform.

Speaking in English, the man called himself "anon" and said he was a Holocaust denier.

"Feminism is the cause of declining birth rates in the West, which acts as a scapegoat for mass immigration, and the root of all these problems is the Jew," he continued, while filming himself in a car before starting the attack.

(Dearden↱)​

And it is, of course, easy enough to check in with Futrelle↱ on this point:

Apparently inspired by the Christchurch shooter, the gunman live-streamed his attack, taking time out before starting the attack to identify himself as "Anon," in what appeared to be a nod to chan culture, and to declare the Holocaust a hoax. He also took a few moments to rail against feminism, which he blamed as "the cause of declining birth rates in the West, which acts as a scapegoat"—I think he meant "excuse"—"for mass immigration,"

He went on to name "the Jew" as the "root of all these problems," a reference to alt-right conspiracy theories charging Jews with concocting feminism—and encouraging mass immigration—as part of their alleged plan to destabilize the West.

It's not surprising to discover that this raging antisemite and apparent alt-rightist is also a rabid antifeminist, because, as Yale University philosophy professor Jason Stanley notes in his book How Fascism Works, misogyny has always been central to "the logic of fascist politics."​

To summarize three paragraphs, it has to do with traditionalist fantasy, and ostensible "white genocide" concerns fretting declining birth rates, which in turn is the fault of feminism weakening the patriarchal family, thus threatening fascism, which in turn derives from partenalistic political hierarchy.

All this is why the alt-right is so freaked out by declining birthrates, And this is why Andrew Anglin of The Daily Stormer insists that a white women's womb is "OUR WOMB—that's right, it doesn't belong to her, it belongs to the males in her society."​

And let us be clear, the episode Futrelle notes, here, was 2016, not quite three years before Anglin went nagtow↑.
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Notes:

Dearden, Lizzie. "Germany synagogue shooting: Suspect 'broadcast attack livestream on Twitch' and ranted about Holocaust, Jews and immigration". The Independent. 9 October 2019. Independent.co.uk. 26 October 2019. http://bit.ly/2Ndimwg

Futrelle, David. "The gunman who killed two in an attack on a German synagogue is a misogynist as well as an antisemite. Because they always are." We Hunted the Mammoth. 9 October 2019. WeHuntedTheMammoth.com. 26 October 2019. http://bit.ly/312qYL5
 
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