can you tell me why!

I have been doing some research about ADHD, OCD, and ADD and not many Americans agree with giving these children the medication, but in UK we are more open to ADHD, ADD and OCD medication, why do the americans hate these drugs so much, ritalin can be a wanderful drug and so can equasym and straterra, so why?

i dont want this thread to turn into "the children dont have ADHD they have bad perants" because it has nothing to do with the perants its a chemical inbalance in the brain.

The problem I see is that our docs here have a horrible tendency to over prescribe drugs. ADHD was the "mal du jour" for awhile, and kids were being given medications that they didn't need. The docs get kickbacks from the drug companies, and a parent who can't handle a kid being a kid takes them in, insists they have ADHD, and the doc either happily prescribes meds for the kickback, or else prescribes it just to shut the parents up. In some HMOs, the docs HAVE to prescribe drugs at a certain point whether or not they're needed because the HMO has financial interest in that drug company that makes the drug and they want to boost their bottom line. It's left more than a few of us Yanks skeptical if not downright paranoid about just taking a doctor's word for it. Smart families keep a current PDR handy, because some docs don't even check to see if the latest wonder pill they've given you will react with the other wonder pills you're taking.

For a kid who actually HAS the condition, the meds work wonders. As the conditions can lessen with time, they don't even necessarily need to stay on it all their lives. Then, it's a problem of getting perfectionist parents to admit that their child has a problem (the opposite of the projecting hypochondriac parent above). They think it makes their kid a freak, or that it reflects badly on them. If the parent doesn't have the insurance to cover the doctor's visits and all subsequent treatments, the kid is SOL.

Oxygen said:

The problem I see is that our docs here have a horrible tendency to over prescribe drugs. ADHD was the "mal du jour" for awhile, and kids were being given medications that they didn't need. The docs get kickbacks from the drug companies, and a parent who can't handle a kid being a kid takes them in, insists they have ADHD, and the doc either happily prescribes meds for the kickback, or else prescribes it just to shut the parents up. In some HMOs, the docs HAVE to prescribe drugs at a certain point whether or not they're needed because the HMO has financial interest in that drug company that makes the drug and they want to boost their bottom line. It's left more than a few of us Yanks skeptical if not downright paranoid about just taking a doctor's word for it. Smart families keep a current PDR handy, because some docs don't even check to see if the latest wonder pill they've given you will react with the other wonder pills you're taking.

For a kid who actually HAS the condition, the meds work wonders. As the conditions can lessen with time, they don't even necessarily need to stay on it all their lives. Then, it's a problem of getting perfectionist parents to admit that their child has a problem (the opposite of the projecting hypochondriac parent above). They think it makes their kid a freak, or that it reflects badly on them. If the parent doesn't have the insurance to cover the doctor's visits and all subsequent treatments, the kid is SOL.

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so am i right in thinking that in America the mum and dad can take the kid to the dr's and insist they have ADHD/ADD and get medication for it from them? Because over here there are forms we ahve to fill in and the drs talk to the kids schools and teachers, and they interview the perants aswell. and they talk with the child on they're own, its not an over night thing here

Based on what I've seen, a parent can successfully brow-beat a doctor into such things. Doctors have less than 15 minutes to spend with a patient per visit, and I don't know of any who interview anyone else in the patient's life. Our healthcare system here is pathetic, and although it may take a couple of appointments, a parent can usually get their way. The requirements for diagnosing such things seem to vary from facility to facility, and different HMOs have different definitions.

For example, Kaiser will foot the whole bill for anything involved in a heart attack. Great! But if you feel chest pains, tightness in the chest, difficulty breathing, and everything else that is a clear onset of a heart attack, and even if your heart seizes momentarily, they classify as a heart "episode", not a heart "attack", and start their screwing around with what they will and won't cover.

I really wish our healthcare system wasn't underwritten by Monty Python...

lucifers angel said:

so am i right in thinking that in America the mum and dad can take the kid to the dr's and insist they have ADHD/ADD and get medication for it from them?

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No, it's not usually that simple. No doctor worth his salt would just write a prescription without more evidence than that.

But doesn't your statement here contradict what you were saying in the first post? In that one, you said that Americans hate such drugs, now you're saying that Americans use the drugs even without a doctor's exam. What, exactly, are you trying to say in this thread?

Baron Max

lucifers angel said:

I have been doing some research about ADHD, OCD, and ADD and not many Americans agree with giving these children the medication, but in UK we are more open to ADHD, ADD and OCD medication, why do the americans hate these drugs so much, ritalin can be a wanderful drug and so can equasym and straterra, so why?

i dont want this thread to turn into "the children dont have ADHD they have bad perants" because it has nothing to do with the perants its a chemical inbalance in the brain.

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Chemical imbalance caused by poor diet lacking in EPA and omega 3's etc.

Who feeds these kids...oh yes, the parents.

Ritilin.... is SPEED.

is it any wonder that kids learn better while on it?

might as well give them coffee at 8 am and again at 1 pm...

in this way... they will all pay more attention.


that is the problem.


our expectation of our kids today, is that they should be robots.

and if they are not good functioning robots.

we force drugs on them, so that they will be.


the problem really is... those kids, would be playing games, and practicing hunting and working daily in very active activities... for survival.


INSTEAD OF sitting in chairs all day... WHICH IS NOT NATURAL.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

-MT

Someone asked me if my little boy was hyper active, I said no, he's just a normal little boy.

If the world was full of book worms, who the heck would get any work done around here. We need men who are physical and creative as well as accademic. Trying to fit all boys or girls for that matter into one shaped hole when they are all different shapes by design and out of need is ridiculous.

Boys need to be allowed to be boys and that means tearing up the place (I exagerate of course) and rampaging around as their testosterone dictates. Some parents would rather pass them a pill than take them for a good game of footie in the park.

This is becoming a womans world and that aint a good thing! Education is greared towards a female learning style and males are expected to be as passive and attentive as females. It is not good and pill popping is not the answer.

Proper diet and proper permission to let your kids be kids is the way forward!

Creative Fossil said:

Someone asked me if my little boy was hyper active, I said no, he's just a normal little boy.

If the world was full of book worms, who the heck would get any work done around here. We need men who are physical and creative as well as accademic. Trying to fit all boys or girls for that matter into one shaped hole when they are all different shapes by design and out of need is ridiculous.

Boys need to be allowed to be boys and that means tearing up the place (I exagerate of course) and rampaging around as their testosterone dictates. Some parents would rather pass them a pill than take them for a good game of footie in the park.

This is becoming a womans world and that aint a good thing! Education is greared towards a female learning style and males are expected to be as passive and attentive as females. It is not good and pill popping is not the answer.

Proper diet and proper permission to let your kids be kids is the way forward!

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it is not all down to the mums you know, and unless people have expierience with ADD/ADHD then they have no idea what it is like to live with an hyperactive child.

1. an inattentive type, with signs that include:

inability to pay attention to details or a tendency to make careless errors in schoolwork or other activities
difficulty with sustained attention in tasks or play activities
apparent listening problems
difficulty following instructions
problems with organization
avoidance or dislike of tasks that require mental effort
tendency to lose things like toys, notebooks, or homework
distractibility
forgetfulness in daily activities
2. a hyperactive-impulsive type, with signs that include:

fidgeting or squirming
difficulty remaining seated
excessive running or climbing
difficulty playing quietly
always seeming to be "on the go"
excessive talking
blurting out answers before hearing the full question
difficulty waiting for a turn or in line
problems with interrupting or intruding

--------------------

i listed some signs of ADHD and ADD so perhaps people will then realise that its not all down to the parenting.

lucifers angel said:

it is not all down to the mums you know, and unless people have expierience with ADD/ADHD then they have no idea what it is like to live with an hyperactive child.

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Is this the same kid who's so fat ...but the fat is not his fault??

Baron Max

Baron Max said:

Is this the same kid who's so fat ...but the fat is not his fault??

Baron Max

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no actually this is not the same kid who's fat, this is my youngest child who has severe ADHD and is on 2 lots of medication for it, he takes startera and equasym, and he has to have medication to help him sleep, and he is active all the time, he has a special teacher at school because he cannot concentrate for more than 10 mins in a row, he has to have special paly times where he is watched all the time because he cant play well with other because he will hit them, so NO this is not the same child, but yes the otehr child does have adhd but not has severe has his brother.

BUT IT IS DOWN TO PARENTING.

a dog.... can be trained to do alot of amazing things.

a human child can be trained to do anything... or ...

or...

or...

trained to think it can do whatever it wants...


its always the parents fault.

no child wants to be disciplined and organized and efficient.

he must be shown how, and given all the CLEAR reasons why.

why not to fidget.
why to focus.
why to sit still and do boring work.

why... most importantly.... why they want to.

this requires training which only parents can provide.

the problem, typically... is parents let their kids grow up to be them, instead of better than them...

this allows children to grow up with biases and bad attitudes and warped beliefs and views, because the parent saw fit to train their child by their bad example, rather than, force the child to follow rules and practice any serious discipline.

that can ... easily cause these behavioral problems in kids.

not a need for drugs.

-MT

There are many children who have such severe attention problems and hyperactivity problems that they cannot sit through class. Many of the children end up grades behind because their parents refuse to medicate.

I worked with foster children for a while and they tend to be very hyper. The director said it was probably a mixture of reaction to trauma and prenatal drug exposure. So with some children I think their hyperactivity or attention difficulties is likely a manifestation of trauma, and I that in the U.S. those children are not getting the correct treatment.

Mosheh Thezion said:

BUT IT IS DOWN TO PARENTING.

a dog.... can be trained to do alot of amazing things.

a human child can be trained to do anything... or ...

or...

or...

trained to think it can do whatever it wants...


its always the parents fault.

no child wants to be disciplined and organized and efficient.

he must be shown how, and given all the CLEAR reasons why.

why not to fidget.
why to focus.
why to sit still and do boring work.

why... most importantly.... why they want to.

this requires training which only parents can provide.

the problem, typically... is parents let their kids grow up to be them, instead of better than them...

this allows children to grow up with biases and bad attitudes and warped beliefs and views, because the parent saw fit to train their child by their bad example, rather than, force the child to follow rules and practice any serious discipline.

that can ... easily cause these behavioral problems in kids.

not a need for drugs.
-MT

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there is a need for medication when the child cannot even learn in school, also like i said i have 2 children with the condition and i dont think i am a bad perant

HEA..

dont get me wrong.... on all for using drugs.

but lets not kid ourselves about why.


we give our kids speed, because we are placing them in a long term stressful enviorment, which is entirely UN-NATURAL.

also... have you ever hit your kids?

are they over protected?

or do you slap them, and force them into discuplined behavior?

-MT

MT

How do you explain when one child out of a family is hyperactive and the rest are not?

I see your point, and it is a valid point. However, when you take that point and say that's why all children have attention problems it looses some validity.

And Ritalin doesn't make ADHD children hyper- it actually calms them down. I was given a Ritalin like medicine for an "off label" reason (the doctor was a quack) and it made me crazy. If you take a truly ADHD child off of Ritalin for a day they end up bouncing off walls. You'd think when you took someone off "speed" they'd go down and not up.

Exploradora said:

MT

How do you explain when one child out of a family is hyperactive and the rest are not?
I see your point, and it is a valid point. However, when you take that point and say that's why all children have attention problems it looses some validity.

And Ritalin doesn't make ADHD children hyper- it actually calms them down. I was given a Ritalin like medicine for an "off label" reason (the doctor was a quack) and it made me crazy. If you take a truly ADHD child off of Ritalin for a day they end up bouncing off walls. You'd think when you took someone off "speed" they'd go down and not up.

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they do a score sheet, they also talk with family members on they're own about what the child is like, they talk with schools and teachers, they visit you at home, they talk with your GP. it is a long and harduos route to go down, and one that is not to be taken lightly. they also talk about the pregnancy aswell, they want to know things like was the child very active, was it a difficult pregnancy, did you take any drugs while you were pregnant, did you drink/smoke, it takes months to diagnose a child with ADHD

Mosheh Thezion said:

also... have you ever hit your kids?
are they over protected?

or do you slap them, and force them into discuplined behavior?
-MT

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i have never ever ever [/B]hit my kids, i think that if you ahve to resort to violence in order to raise kids then you have lost it mentally, and anyway once a child see's that he/she is getting that sort of reaction they will do it even more, i think that punishments like grounding and withdrawing things like computers from them work better.

Exploradora said:

MT

How do you explain when one child out of a family is hyperactive and the rest are not?

I see your point, and it is a valid point. However, when you take that point and say that's why all children have attention problems it looses some validity.

And Ritalin doesn't make ADHD children hyper- it actually calms them down. I was given a Ritalin like medicine for an "off label" reason (the doctor was a quack) and it made me crazy. If you take a truly ADHD child off of Ritalin for a day they end up bouncing off walls. You'd think when you took someone off "speed" they'd go down and not up.

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about half hour after my son has had his medication he is calm again, you should know when a child is hyperactive because he is bouncing of the walls, and yes your right if your given ritalin for "of label" reasons then it will make you mad.