No Lucy, the part in bold caps is in QUOTES.
It's from the actual LEGISLATION.
Arthur
Obama extends patriot act
- Thread starter Mrs.Lucysnow
- Start date
No Lucy, the part in bold caps is in QUOTES.
It's from the actual LEGISLATION.
Arthur
Trouble is Varda that's how our legal system works.
Indeed we often have laws passed and we live under them for YEARS before they are tested by a case and it makes it to the Supreme Court and they finally rule that it is unconsitutional.
Our system works, but it is SLOW.
Arthur
You miss the point.
Congress knew it was giving the President significant power.
They didn't want it delegated because by not allowing that it effectively limited the number of people that power could be used against and that the President would be affixing his name (and reputation) to each person/case he chose to wield that power against.
Thus pretty much guaranteeing it would not be widely used.
Arthur
Yes. And that his the price he pays for election and governance - one hopes with at least some personal approval and willingness, for the sake of his soul, but pays nevertheless if he wants to be President.michael said:
That's the situation W&Co left us.
A distinction without a difference - very few Americans have no contact with any non-Americans who might be linked to potential terrorist activity - especially since merely arguing a case against US "anti-terrorism" efforts of any kind is officially and legally interpretable as support for terrorism.adoucette said:
So that FISA act allows the tapping of anyone who has, for example, a bank account in the same bank that a charity with possible overseas terrorist connections has used to launder money, and has received a phone call from someone at that bank with any connection to the laundered money.
Lots of people did, adn still do. Do you take them seriously? Do they stand any chance of election to national office - getting big corporate donations, favorable media?leopold said:
They have violated almost every provision of the Bill of Rights.leopold said:
And we have no confidence in your obviously ignorant and naive opinions in this matter, neither do we think our Constitutional rights are subject to the opinions of anonymous agents of the Executive Branch -leopold said:
it was the other way around, originally, and this new take on things looks like the same old banana republic crap we've seen ruin countries throughout history and around the world.
Not everyone. Plenty of people in recent US administrations have deicded otherwise, and acted accordingly.adoucette said:
That misses the point. The phone companies will naturally cooperate, unless they are under obligation not to.leopold said:
They have been subjected to a generation of coordinated and lavishly funded propaganda, informed and designed by the most sophisticated marketing and propaganda industry the world has ever seen.lucy said:
It's worse than that - Americans are prepared and ready to react with virulence in opposition if Obama shows the slightest sign of exercising such powers. It would cost him any hope of Congressional, industrial, financial, or corporate media support - including getting re-elected.lucy said:
That's obviously not true - they are seriously out of line, and they have your support, Congress's support, the corporate media's support, and the support of the authoritarian Right in general.adoucette said:
But it helps a lot - gets your support, and the rest of your kind. Allows the pretense of governing under a rule of law to continue. Confuses many who would otherwise revolt.leopold said:
Look at this, for example - two essentially consecutive posts from a standard US propaganda victim:
Or this comment, about a law whose essential problem is that it allows secrecy and removes the traditional requirement that government acknowledge what it is doing and why and to whom (get a warrant):
There is no defense against what amounts to an inculcated mental defect.
Well if enough people actually agreed with you then they would do something about it.
But clearly the majority of people don't agree with you.
I know, we're all Sheeple.
LOL
Arthur
K
keith1
Guest
The government can't come to the phone right now, as it's hands are full, dealing with a multitude of debilitating Bush era screw-ups, that it hasn't the schedule time to debate this one Bush era screw-up at this time. Please call back later.
*:facepalm*
Hi, I'm Nobody, nice to meet you.
Funny, that actually is one of my clutch of online aliases. I like to make up one fresh for most sites. Only stopped doing so when I started blogging, therefore became a bit of a hit-count whore for the sort of traffic I'm interested in...not this site.
I am only Chimpkin here. And I am pretty powerless and generally disenfranchised everywhere, because the real voting in this country goes on behind closed doors with lots of campaign dollars.
I expected to be disappointed in Obama.
I always find Democrats disappointing, and Republicans appalling.
There you have it.:shrug:
Last edited:
To the government they absolutely are.
Do you really think you are on someone's radar at the FBI, CIA or NSA?
Do you really think they have meetings about you in Washington or Chicago and discuss what to do about you?
Do you?
Arthur
See previous message as the reference was in relationship to the government's view of you.
I'm willing to bet that both of us are just about as insignificant as it is possible to be to the FBI, CIA or NSA.
To put it in perspective, most of the people in Federal Prison are for the run of the mill reasons:
Drug Offenses are 51%
Illegal dealing/use or possession of weapons & explosives is 15 %
Robbery, Burglary, Larceny and Fraud make up 15%.
People being held waiting immigration hearings is 12%
Sex offenses (Primarily child porn) make up 5%,
Murder/kidnapping make up 3%.
While there are but 96 people in Federal Prisons for issues dealing with National Security.
So to put my post in perspective, if you aren't into dealing drugs fairly big time, you don't sell or import illegal weapons, you aren't into Robbing banks or Burglary of federal property, or trying your hand at counterfitting money, or dealing in child porn and you haven't killed a Federal officer, judge etc or kidnapped anyone recently the FBI is highly unlikely to even know you exist, or care.
Arthur
Last edited:
holy shit on a stick, have you lost your mind arthur?
the peoples innocence and protecting it is definitely on the U.S. governments agenda.
In my case...you lose.
I went out and heckled Slick Willie in person when he was here once. While he was out for a morning jog with the SS guys.
Accomplishing nothing besides, I'm sure, a very little blurb in the Secret Service files for me, to go along with the very little blurbs I have from the FBI for hanging out around the unterroristic end of local terrorist orgs like Earth First and Animal Liberation Front.
Meh, I really hope they aren't wasting money watching me, I'm highly unlikely to cause mayhem these days. Just because I could does not mean I will...I could do lots of things.
Yeah, we'll go with highly unlikely. I don't have lawyer money, therefore it behooves me to behave
.In my case...you lose.
I went out and heckled Slick Willie in person when he was here once. While he was out for a morning jog with the SS guys.
Doesn't mean they know who you are. We really don't have easy means to identify people based on just that little bit of contact.
Again, doesn't mean they know who you are, or care. Particularly since, as you say, you weren't involved in terrorism.
Meh, I really hope they aren't wasting money watching me, I'm highly unlikely to cause mayhem these days. Just because I could does not mean I will...I could do lots of things.
Yeah, we'll go with highly unlikely. I don't have lawyer money, therefore it behooves me to behave
Again, seems like just egotistic thinking because if that's the extent of your activity there probably is no file on you anywhere.
Arthur
one word, transparency.
if the government didn't give a crappola about you then why the transparency?
I didn't say the government doesn't care about the people IN GENERAL terms.
I was simply saying that the government doesn't have enough hours in the day or agents to spy on individuals unless there is some pressing reason to do so.
The Federal prison statistics I gave earlier is a very good indication of who and what they do in fact spend their time on.
Drug Offenses are 51% of Federal Prison Population
Illegal dealing/use or possession of weapons & explosives is 15 %
Robbery, Burglary, Larceny and Fraud make up 15%.
People being held waiting immigration hearings is 12%
Sex offenses (Primarily child porn) make up 5%,
Murder/kidnapping make up 3%.
While 96 people are in Federal Prisons for issues dealing with National Security (4/100ths of a percent).
Arthur
Last edited: