Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Sardonic Crisis]

If Vader had undergone Bene Gesserit training, then Luke would have turned to the dark side in ep. 5 (although it wouldn't be dark anymore.... more of a Jensaarai blend)..... and Palpatine would no longer be Emperor... Hell, knowing the Bene Gesserit inclination for politics, Vader could have played the coup as a means to turn the rebellion....

Wasn't he the chosen one... shouldn't he have had the power to do all this anyway?

 

[Sardonic Crisis]

To any universe, the Atreides line would be formidable.

1)Innate prescience without melange in some cases. (Darwi Odrade in Heretics and Chapterhouse)

2)Hidden from the temporal sight as a result of the careful breeding by Leto II during his 3,500 year reign. (Heretics) --yeah take that time lords--

3)Although only found in one person, Miles Teg, the ability to accelerate bodily motion to the point of it being seen as a blur. (end of Heretics and midway through Chapterhouse)

4)The, literally, undying loyalty of Duncan Idaho.

5)axlotl tanks to incubate any of the key atreides.... Leto II perhaps?

 

[Omega133]

Dune vs Star Wars. As much as I like Dune, Star Wars has so much more. The Death Star is alot more powerful than anything I saw on Dune. Let's not forget the other force powers you forgot to mention. The "Thought Bomb" for one is more powerful than most Weirding way things. A thought bomb is a powerful force power used by the Sith, it extracts the force out of the user and binds it into a shape capable of explosion. Once detonated the bomb kills all life within the radius. However when creating a force bomb it kills the user as well. You only looked at the minor force powers.

 

[Omega133]

I am a Star Wars fan by the way. My name should say it all.

 

[Omega133]

Yes, but other than Yoda, we don't see any of them do any truly amazing things... like, for example, Mace Windu's Force Crushes and Force Blasts. Those are terrifying attacks... force lightning is just... meh. I mean, yeah, to an unshielded opponent... but a MACO with personal shielding would laugh at it, then vaporize the poor sith using it.

What about Luke? Or Vader? Force lightning isn't all that powerful against shields, but that's not all he can do. I mean Sith know way more than the Jedi, and he's the dark lord of the sith, surely his powers would be more than a match for grunts and well trained troops. And for future reference what is an MACO?

 

[Kittamaru]

What about Luke? Or Vader? Force lightning isn't all that powerful against shields, but that's not all he can do. I mean Sith know way more than the Jedi, and he's the dark lord of the sith, surely his powers would be more than a match for grunts and well trained troops. And for future reference what is an MACO?

MACO is a federation marine, created sometime during Voyager timeline wise. They are the primary "personal" combat asset of the federation, and use more potent weapons such as Phaser Rifles, Personal Shields, and other devices not part of a standard "away team" loadout.

They were also present in Enterprise... but that seriously FUBAR's the Trek timeline... heh.

And I doubt Vader could stop a lvl 16 wide pattern phaser strike... no real way to block it when every part of your body is being targeted simultaneously.

And I hate to say it, Luke and Vader were insects compared to Mace Windu... he was BAD-ASS plain and simple - Luke at his prime is good... but not nearly that good.

 

[ricrery]

Daleks could take it, no joke. They have been shown immune to weapons that can vaporize normal people. All in "The Daleks Master Plan (1966)"

 

[Omega133]

MACO is a federation marine, created sometime during Voyager timeline wise. They are the primary "personal" combat asset of the federation, and use more potent weapons such as Phaser Rifles, Personal Shields, and other devices not part of a standard "away team" loadout.

Oh, ok. Yeah I remember seeing them in an episode of Voyagr, just didn't recognize the name, sorry.

And I doubt Vader could stop a lvl 16 wide pattern phaser strike... no real way to block it when every part of your body is being targeted simultaneously.

Yeah but iv'e seen Jedi put up shields using the force around their entire bodies. And if Jedi can do it Sith can do it, sometimes better.

And I hate to say it, Luke and Vader were insects compared to Mace Windu... he was BAD-ASS plain and simple - Luke at his prime is good... but not nearly that good.

Yeah Mace Windu is pretty Bad-Ass. True Luke isn't that good, but he is powerful and could hold his own against several Trek Marines.

 

[ProphetofWisdom]

Will I believe I found a race that just puts everyone else here to shame: The Jjaro of the Marathon-verse created by Bungie in 94. Facts are scarce on them but what little we know easily puts them above everyone else.

Jjaro Dreadnought: The Manus Celer Dei.

Originally Posted by RalphNumbers at SB.

The Manus Celer Dei (aka the Swift Hand of God) is the Jjaro dreadnaught that Durandal somehow acquired after the main events of Marathon Infinity.

About the only thing we *know* Durandal did with it was let the Human solar fleet as of the year 12811 chase it around outside the solar system, before jumping into LEO, delivering a message, and leaving.

It's generally assumed that when we next see Durandal, during the final planck-instants of the big-crunch, he's still using it. The fact that it's operating at all under those conditions (i.e. with virtually all of the mass and energy of the universe collapsed into a point) implies astounding capabilities. And Durundal's stated rate of thought (he has multiple distinct thoughts in less than a planck-instant) is so absurdly fast that normal examples of extreme quickness, like Culture minds and the Shrike might as well be completely frozen in comparison (a Mind has stated that it has billions of thoughts per second (~10^9 or maybe 10^12 depending on what definition of 'billion' it was using), whereas at the rate Durandal was going he might have over 10^43 thoughts per second).

Gridfire and Starkillers are not even going to hurt the paint on this thing!

Farther on Jjaro tech.

Originally posted by RalphNumbers at SB

And of course, Jjaro tech in general does impressive things, like time/space/interuniversal travel, teleporting around planetoids, remotely generating black holes large enough to instantly swallow stars, surviving at the center of an event that may well have destroyed the rest of the universe, fighting and winning a conflict with a whole race of absolutely unkillable near-omnipotents (for reference, the Megallanic Clouds are the debris field from a scuffle between a couple of those guys). And all of those feats, except the last, were accomplished with either barely understood and unmaintained relics, or copies of Jjaro technology millions of years after they left our galaxy (and probably our universe).

A quote about the enemy of the Jjaro from wikipeida.

In primordial space, timeless creatures made waves. These waves created us and the others. Waves were the battles, and the battles were waves. Fleeing all W'rkncacnter, Yrro and Pthia settled upon Lh'owon. They brought the S'pht, servants who began to shape the deserts of Lh'owon into marsh and sea, rivers and forests. They made sisters for Lh'owon to protect and maintain the paradise. When the W'rkncacnter came, Pthia was killed, and Yrro in anger, flung the W'rkncacnter into the sun. The sun burned them, but they swam on its surface.

There are plenty of other posts in old threads at SB that have a few more details than these ones.

 

[ricrery]

Gridfire and Starkillers are not even going to hurt the paint on this thing!

LIES. Gridfire is basically the equivalent of the Big Bang, and the Culture can spam this on ANY ship. Big Bang x100,000,000 > Big Crunch x1.

 

[ProphetofWisdom]

LIES. Gridfire is basically the equivalent of the Big Bang, and the Culture can spam this on ANY ship. Big Bang x100,000,000 > Big Crunch x1.

Wow, I am so impressive I am being called a liar and the only proof is without anything to back you up is your say so. The Jjaro fought a race of god-like beings that could destroy the universe in an instant and WON. I'm sorry, but I prefer to go with what I've been reading in these old SB threads and not someone who goes from lighting bolts being 610 Gigajoules to 590 Megajoules. Care to start backing up some of this with some real numbers and not pull it out of thin air and not even stay consistent between the last claim?

Also proof that the Culture spams the Grid fire on that level because from what I am reading at another old SB theard is that they rarely use it on moving targets like other ships.

 

[Sardonic Crisis]

Dune vs Star Wars. As much as I like Dune, Star Wars has so much more. The Death Star is alot more powerful than anything I saw on Dune.

The Death Star's Superlaser is a sustained beam. That in conjunction with the Holtzman Shield would spell disaster for both sides. The Death Star would be playing roulette each time it fired on one of those shields.

Let's not forget the other force powers you forgot to mention. The "Thought Bomb" for one is more powerful than most Weirding way things. A thought bomb is a powerful force power used by the Sith, it extracts the force out of the user and binds it into a shape capable of explosion. Once detonated the bomb kills all life within the radius. However when creating a force bomb it kills the user as well. You only looked at the minor force powers.

1. So the Sith would have to resort to kamikaze missions? Doesn't the losing side tend towards that option?

2. There is raw power and then there is applied power... the force users have raw power but only the greats were able to apply it well. Bene Gesserits that become Reverend Mothers have thousands of years worth of genetic memories... Force users are children to them.

3. The Bene Gesserits do not rely on mysticism... they twist it to their own ends. The Sith and the Jedi are inevitably trapped in their own mysticism and that is an easy thing to manipulate for the Bene Gesserits.

 

[ricrery]

Wow, I am so impressive I am being called a liar and the only proof is without anything to back you up is your say so.

I do, I SHOWED you a SOURCE that proved they were nothing compared to the Culture and you go "DUR THE JJARO FOUGHT WITH GOD LIKE RACES AND WON" with zero evidence. Liar xD

The Jjaro fought a race of god-like beings that could destroy the universe in an instant and WON.

SB!

"Imprisonal of a race of omnipotent beings" is a contradiction... if they were omnipotent they would have broken out of their prison.

Xeelee and PR just steamrool them... maybe even Xeelee OR Perry Rhodan universe...

TA ? Hmm, they could provide some canonfodder units like their superdreadnought !

Well then near - omnipotent.

They can also destroy stars and move planets through space to other systems, but those are low - end abilities compared to the rest.

Wow, even Mr. FANBOY WANK CONCEDED THAT THEY AREN'T OMNIPOTENT. Well, they aren't even close. You always go "THEY'LL JUST GIVE THEM RUBBER PIGGY HEADS" WITH NO PROOF

I'm sorry, but I prefer to go with what I've been reading in these old SB threads and not someone who goes from lighting bolts being 610 Gigajoules to 590 Megajoules.

Are you stupid? I said 610 MEGAJOULES, NOT 590! Besides, I was getting giga and mega mixed up. The Dalek BEAM is equal to a lightning beam on lower power, and a lightning beam = 610 megajoules xD.

Care to start backing up some of this with some real numbers and not pull it out of thin air and not even stay consistent between the last claim?

Are you mentally ill? I bring up quotes, sources, AND videos, you do NONE of these. Sounds like hypocrisy to me. I PROVED that Irkens stand ZERO chance against the Culture, Xeelee, and Doctor Who, and all you said was "they'll just give them rubber piggy brains" or "Competent ones would win."

 

[ricrery]

The Death Star's Superlaser is a sustained beam. That in conjunction with the Holtzman Shield would spell disaster for both sides. The Death Star would be playing roulette each time it fired on one of those shields.

OOOOH, problem IS, that Dune nukes will bounce off the DS, while its laser would destroy Dune ships. Fact is: Raw firepower = effective against most enemies, and chain reactions = not so much.

 

[Shogun]

Dark Reaper, Sith Magic .ect Yep, that says a lot about force powers. Thought bomb, I forgot about that, thank the good old Sith, it was almost used during the Battle of Ruusaan I believe. Vader sucked because he was in the armor, before he got burned, he was awesome.

 

[ProphetofWisdom]

I do, I SHOWED you a SOURCE that proved they were nothing compared to the Culture and you go "DUR THE JJARO FOUGHT WITH GOD LIKE RACES AND WON" with zero evidence. Liar xD

YOU LEFT OUF INFORMATION THAT CHANGES THE LIGHT ON THE SUBJECT.
And I gave zero evidence? The posts I quoted how all the information I really needed. Please read what I post before claiming I didn't give any really evidence. Your the one who left out information.

SB!





Wow, even Mr. FANBOY WANK CONCEDED THAT THEY AREN'T OMNIPOTENT. Well, they aren't even close. You always go "THEY'LL JUST GIVE THEM RUBBER PIGGY HEADS" WITH NO PROOF

*Rolls eyes* Please point me to where I CLAIMED THEY WERE OMNIPOTENT. Also the Irkens replace the brains of other races via time travel or inter-galactic trasnporters as I have mentioned Zim did before. Eps was "Bad, Bad Rubber Piggy".

Are you stupid? I said 610 MEGAJOULES, NOT 590!

Completely irrelevant Nitpick to distract others from the point.

Besides, I was getting giga and mega mixed up. The Dalek BEAM is equal to a lightning beam on lower power, and a lightning beam = 610 megajoules xD.

610 Megajoules is about several hundered tank rounds. Given people have survived lighting bolts I really do doubt low end is that for lighting.

Are you mentally ill? I bring up quotes, sources, AND videos, you do NONE of these.

I was talking about the Mega/Gigajoules! I didn't claim you didn't give quotes, sources, and videos! You were not giving where you the numbers and given you change them what reason would I have to believe you were doing anything besides pulling the MJ/GJ number for lighting out of thin air without a source?

Sounds like hypocrisy to me. I PROVED that Irkens stand ZERO chance against the Culture, Xeelee, and Doctor Who, and all you said was "they'll just give them rubber piggy brains" or "Competent ones would win."

Right, its not like I didn't mention MANY other abilites they had, right? And of course I'm sure you can prove everything I said was rubber piggy's or Competent ones just win for, ah I don't know, its not like I really have to go into to much detail given what normal Irkens arleady do with their tech? Culture more advance you say? Use inter-galactic range transporters to beam technology off their ships to be study before invading.

 

[ricrery]

YOU LEFT OUF INFORMATION THAT CHANGES THE LIGHT ON THE SUBJECT.
And I gave zero evidence? The posts I quoted how all the information I really needed. Please read what I post before claiming I didn't give any really evidence. Your the one who left out information.

How so? I put all the information a wiki gave me, and it was a Marathon wiki so

*Rolls eyes* Please point me to where I CLAIMED THEY WERE OMNIPOTENT. Also the Irkens replace the brains of other races via time travel or inter-galactic trasnporters as I have mentioned Zim did before. Eps was "Bad, Bad Rubber Piggy".

Oh... but you acted like they were omnipotent like destroying the universe in an instant. Okay, how does that get past shields, hyperspace, and physic breaking existence?

610 Megajoules is about several hundered tank rounds. Given people have survived lighting bolts I really do doubt low end is that for lighting.

The spheres could hover through the atmosphere and even fly through space, undamaged. Concealed within the sphere are spikes and blades that can extend. A Toclafane can use them to slice up a Human being. The spheres are also equipped with a laser that can turn Humans into ash. The spheres can be shot down by an electrical surge of 58.5 kiloamperes, transferred charge 510 mega joules precisely; however, this is most unlikely because this power exists in lightning bolts, and the odds of one bolt striking a Toclafane are slim.

Really?

I was talking about the Mega/Gigajoules! I didn't claim you didn't give quotes, sources, and videos! You were not giving where you the numbers and given you change them what reason would I have to believe you were doing anything besides pulling the MJ/GJ number for lighting out of thin air without a source?

See above.

Culture more advance you say? Use inter-galactic range transporters to beam technology off their ships to be study before invading.

And you see Irkens fighting in microseconds while also destroy star systems by braking too hard. They also can change their existence into anything they desire in one years time, oh and they can snipe you in FTL. Wait... they can't do that. xD.

 

[Sardonic Crisis]

OOOOH, problem IS, that Dune nukes will bounce off the DS, while its laser would destroy Dune ships. Fact is: Raw firepower = effective against most enemies, and chain reactions = not so much.

1. The reaction of a sustained beam weapon on the Holtzman Shield results in an explosion on the quantum level and could occur at the source of the beam or at the impact with the shield or both. It would only be a matter of time until there was a bullet in the chamber that destroys the Death Star. (it is detailed as a subatomic explosion but due to the nature of an indeterminate source of such explosion I believe it to be on the quantum level)

2. Yes, Atomics are used in Dune... However, it doesn't detail what kind of fission or fusion is going on. A stone burner is an atomic that can destroy a planet... and with its description in Dune Messiah, it seems that they are able to shape atomic explosions... just because they didn't go for different energy types doesn't mean that they have inferior capabilities.

 

[ProphetofWisdom]

How so? I put all the information a wiki gave me, and it was a Marathon wiki so

*Points at Halopedia as proof NEVER to trust any wikia without double checking* It was one of their stated abilites along with warping reality.

Oh... but you acted like they were omnipotent like destroying the universe in an instant. Okay, how does that get past shields, hyperspace, and physic breaking existence?

*Shrugs* The Q aren't true omnipotents either and they could destroy the universe. It was stated that the moment the one of the W'rkncacnter was released from that star that it destroyed that universe in an instant.

Really?



See above.

Ok.

And you see Irkens fighting in microseconds while also destroy star systems by braking too hard. They also can change their existence into anything they desire in one years time, oh and they can snipe you in FTL. Wait... they can't do that. xD.

The Irkens can set back in another galaxy learning all they need to know about using the tech they transport out of Culture ships before invading.

Also, destroy star systems by braking to hard?! Bah! The Irkens don't stop for no stinking star system they just run it over!

Farther on what I am reading on the Jjaro Dreadnought at SB that Durandal called "The Hand of God" it has reality warping powers. Also, you know how you said the Xeelee could just travel back before the Jjaro existed? The Jjaro can do the same thing to the Culture. Culture never stood a chance since they just travel back in time before the Culture ever existed. Bit hard to destory beings that easily move in and out of space-time.

 

[ricrery]

Well, Culture ARE the masters of reverse engineering. So, if any ship gets near their vicinity, then it's over.