For many many years the general attitude of Americans, as percieved by outsiders, has been the "my backyard is bigger than your county" attitude. Katrina gave America yet another rude awakening (post 9/11) and now they are looking for scapegoats. Naturally they turn to politicians, but should they? I say no. Katrina took everyone by surprise by its ferocity but environmentalists will tell you, they have been shouting at deaf ears for many years now. Within our own childrens lifetimes, the likes of hurricane Katrina will become the "norm"; by 2050 weather in many regions will be ferocious and expected. With the stripping of mother natures weather generating regions, rainforests etc, the events as viewed by us all on tv in New Orleans will become more and more common. The time to address the balance is now, not 5 years hence, or 10 years, or "after we are dead" but NOW. The Americans refused to honour the Kyoto Concord and now reap the benefits! Everyone of us has a responsibility to each other, our children and their children to get the planet back onto an even keel before the weather actually makes the surface uninhabitable. The politicians are to blame, but not for failing to react to this disaster but for causing it.
I agree with most of what you said, but there is no way that an international emissions agreement would have an immediate effect on the weather, it's more of a long-term thing. The weather could very well get more extreme for thousands of years to come no matter what we do. Still, such agreements are necessary.
No more than 25 years ago, the UK started to do away with leaded petrol and the benefits can already be felt throughout the air we breathe. There is a hell of a difference from when I was a youngster already. If all countries conducted immediate remedial measures, not laws for "later on" then the benefits would begin to be felt fairly quickly. Mother Nature has a remarkably fast recovery rate as long as she is given the chance. The Brazilian government (and neighbours) must stop all tree felling in the Amazon NOW, and plant more before the resulting desert gets any worse. Where trees have already been felled, 25% I believe of the rain forest, the crops lasted 2 years then the soil became unplantable! A desert. We can stop it but it must be done by governments and to hell with the so called "industrial lobby" which continues to blackmail and beat politicians into submissive aquiescence. Its the politicians who are to blame, then the industrialists and then so called agricultural expansion. We can do something about the Politicans now however. 2045 is the magic date; I believe some environmentalists call it the point of no return.
you mean there are countrys still using leaded petrol? its sooo hard to buy LRP here now (unfortuantly i have a really old car which cant use unleaded) and even if you can its 4c higher than unleaded by law
No, leaded gasoline is not allowed anymore. I heard the ozone hole in Antarctica has stopped expanding, probably due to banning CFC's.
CFC's have been banned in almost every country but I am not sure about China and Far East. The ban, which came not a minute too soon, has had a good effeect on the environment, it just goes to show that nature can recover as I said before.
Australia would like to thank the world for that B\W. We have had increases in skin-cancer evey year because of that so we should probably thank everyone for stopping using them
CFCs have been replaced by HCFCs which has the same damaging potential as CFCs, otherwise, it would not be banned by January 1, 2010. This will be replaced by HFCs. No one knows if HFCs would cause the same damage if refrigerants are the real cause of damage to begin with. What if HFCs accelerate the ozone damage since Fluorine would no more have to compete with Chlorine, and Fluorine is more reactive than Chlorine.
Hi, everybody! I have been in sciforums for almost 4 years now, but this is the first time I've seen a group of people that really don't know what to think about many things! Red Devil, believes that global warming will increase the frequency and violence of hurricanes; he believes that the ban on leaded fuels has something to do with cleaner air that “can be felt”… that Brazilians have tore down 25% of the Amazon jungle; that crops lasted two years and then comes the desert… That CFC were banned just in time but he’s not sure if China has banned them; that the ban had a good effect on the environment,, well, I guess he must believe in fairies and goblins too. And sniffy, a Green Spirit that believes that Earth is a living creature with its own will and feelings (GAIA) … Asguard, who believes that really old cars cannot use unleaded gasoline… and that the increase of skin cancers is due to ozone depletion --and not to white skinned britons moving to a country too sunny, good only for dark skinned people with lots of pigments in their skins. Finally Spidergoat, who believes tha the ozone hole in Antarctica has stopped expanding probably due to banning CFCs,… At the end, Kmguru, an old friend from many battles in Sciforums, that tries to play along with this beautiful group, giving some useful information for “breaking the ice”. (Hi, Robbie, long time without hearing from you!) Red Devil: all scientists in the US National Hurricane Center, almost all state meteorologists and climatologists in the US, headed by Dr. Chris Landsea, will tell you that contrary to press releases, storminess and hurricanes had their peak in the decade of 1930-40, then 1940-50 was the quietest period, from 1995 to 2000 saw a small increase in hurricanes, and from 2000 to date storminess and hurricanes have been decreasing. It is official science: Global warming has not caused any oncrease in storminess --just the opposite. The only thng that has increased is reporting --and the ensuing neurosis. Then, the ban of leaded gasoline only removed lead from the atmosphere in cities, although it was an unnecessary ban because (1) lead had been decreasing in the human body (measured in hair and bone, where it is stored) since the last part of the 1700s. (2) Although lead production increased in 1929 introduction of leaded gasoline) from 0 to 640.000 tons annually, the lead content in the human body kept decreasing, and decreasing. Just read what Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski, former head of the UNSCEAR (United Nations Scientific Committee on Effects of Atomic Radiation) and the man who know most about lead in the world has to say about this widespread myth: http://mitosyfraudes.8k.com/INGLES/Chap4-LEAD.html, Then, the Amazon deforestation. It has been figured by real technicians in UN agencies specialized in forestry, that about 10% of the Amazon jungle (at its rims) have been converted into pasture for cattle, roads, and cities. The old region in the state of Rondonia has been reclaimed by the jungle as the farmers there abandoned their lands and returned to Sao Paulo and other big cities where life is easier. They have just to fight against the police, not against nature --police is not as hard. I have lived and explored the Amazon jungle for more than 30 years (as kmguru can tell you), so I know what I am talking about. Believe me, what’s being reported about the Amazon is 45% fantasy and 45% lies. The other 10% is exaggeration. China (and India too) has a huge program of cheap refrigeratrs fot the Chinese people, based on CFC (R-12 and R-11 freons) technology. As they are 1,2 billon Chinese out there, CFCs are being used as they were used before their stupid ban –and the ozone layer is still as always has been: up there, sound and indestructible –and somewhat useless. Asguard: My son has a restored and beautiful 1929 Chevrolet “Champion”. We have not leaded fuel in Argentina, so he uses unleaded 100 octane gasoline. The only change he did in the engine was installing a new set of valves, not expensive (sodium type) that compensate for the lack of lubrication to the valve seats that was provided by the led in the old gasoline. Even so, you can use leaded gasoline without sodium valves. They will wear out sooner, that's all. BTW: the “advantage” we got from the ban of leaded gasolines is that now they use another compounds for preventing detonation of the mixture –that are highly carcinogenic, and are to be phased out soon. Great deal! And spidergoat, yes, CFC were banned because they were held responsible for ozone layer destruction, although they had (and still have) nothing to do with the alleged ozone depletion. And the ozone hole has always been about the same size, give or take a couple million of square kilometers, and a couple of zillions years since it was formed. Hoping to have shocked you enough, I will be waiting for your shocked responses. Something may come out of this sockin thread. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Ummm you dont really know anything do you? The records of skin canser have been INCREASING since the ozone hole, also (just to prove the link) so has UV radiation which is what CAUSES skin canser. Yes if we were all black we wouldnt have AS MUCH trouble but the hole in the ozone layer is causing problems even for lighter skined aborigionals who have been living around the area melbourne is now for thousands of years. There IS a link between the hole in the ozone layer and skin canser in australia. As for old cars you just cant use unleaded in my car, im sorry if that thought offeneds you but you cant. I can use LRP or nothing, thats the choice i have. YES some old cars can use unleaded (our old torago used unleaded) but some cant.
Something to think: Is skin cancer increasing or people are going to the doctors more vs. say 50 years ago and hence the numbers? In USA, we are spending $1.3 Trillion dollars in healthcare today while only a few billion dollars in 1950.
And if we had prepared the maximum protection for New Orleans before this September, it would be in good shape right now. How about we take care of the things we know, and the things we know how to do, as a minimum standard?
First thing: I am not offended by any thought. If I know anything will be shown here, as your knowledge too. What’s the reason for not being able to use unleaded gas on an old car? I have enough technical background on mechanics (4 years in aeronautical and mechanical engineering) and cannot see the reason for the impossibility. 4 and 2 stroke engines designed for gasoline (unleaded or not) or a mixture with oil, can run on almost any fuel, from corn, sunflower, soybean oil, kerosene, alcohol, paint remover, natural gas, etc with some minor adjustments. Second thing: records of skin cancer have been increasing in many parts of the world AFTER the ozone scare alarm. It is attributed to a better paperwork, an increase in screening in a field that worried no one then. You ought to know that the skin has three types of tumors. Two of them are called “benign” because they seldom produce metastasis (basal and squamous cell) so they are not really cancers, although some dermatologists like to think otherwise. The malignant type is <b>melanoma</B>, whose etiology is still unknown. There have been many experiments trying to induce melanoma by applying UV-B radiation to animal, but without success (partial success was obtained in conjunction with chemical added to the skin). So there is no proved link between sun exposure and melanomas. Black people have the same rate of melanoma as light skinned people, but very low incidence of the other two kind of tumors (basal and squamous) that are caused by an excess exposure to UV radiation. You and most people are confusing benign type with malignant type, and attributing all of them to UV radiation. Worse still, the highest incidence rate of melanomas are among office workers, those people who spend most of their life inside buildings. Finally, melanomas are mostly found in areas of the body <b>NOT EXPOSED</b> to the sun or UV rays, as inside the mouth, on the feet soles, in the buttocks, armpits, etc. I repeat: there is no connection between melanomas and UV radiation. There is no correlation between any type of skin tumors (even the benign ones) with the ozone hole and an alleged ozone layer depletion that has not happened anywhere in the world –except in Antarctica. UV-B radiation levels decreased in the USA from 1974 to 1985 (the study was stopped then) at a rate of 0.7% annually, for a total of 7% UV-B radiation decrease in the entire US territory. Read Joseph Scotto et al., paper <i>“Biologically Effective Ultraviolet Radiation: Surface Measurements in the United States, 1974-1985”</i> Science, Febr. 12, 1988. Have you ever considered the possibility of having been duped by propaganda? Most people in the world have been conned, so why not you too?
well i know nothing about cars so i guess i will keep relying on my mechanic, the RACV and Vic roads to tell what cars can run on what. i also think i will continue to rely on the AMA, and the goverment as to what causes skin canser as well rather than US medical studys that always seem to have there own agender
I agree. But to say that if Bush would have signed the protocol you wouldn't have had Katrina... that is a fallacy....
Asguard: If you keep relying in people and institutions without knowing why you are doing it, then you will be prey of embezzlers, hoaxers and other kind of smart guys (mostly in governmental offices) that make their fortunes convincing people they must do whatever they say for saving the planet, the ozone layer, stopping pollution, or some other stupid theory. I am giving you the scientific facts, but you rather believe your mechanic (how much does he charges you for “technical advice”?), or your government (how much does it steals from you in the way of stupid and unfair taxes?, and how much does you government help you gain education?) Being ignorant is bad enough (though it can be remediated), but insisting in keep being ignorant, is beyond comprehension. They say "youth is a disease that gets cured with time..." I give up. I wish you happiness in your blessed ignorance.
